Gameplay confusion

[Guest Zac]

I played vanilla BG2 a long, long time ago, and I don't remember much except that it was pretty easy. So I wanted to give this mod a shot. I just installed the basic AI components and wanted to see what it was like.

 

I like a challenge, but the thief behavior is baffling to me. Invisibility potion, backstab, invis potion, backstab, etc through a seemingly unlimited number of potions? First of all, considering the price of invisibility potions, this can't be a profitable venture and so this is immersion breaking. If my thieves did this I'd be blowing through 1000 gold every battle. In simple gameplay terms, I'm baffled that anyone doesn't find this incredibly cheesy. And despite the tremendous amount of modularity in this mod, there's no way to turn off potion abuse.

 

What's also sad is that I can't tell if I'll like the rest of the mod because I literally can't go anywhere in this game. I really like the idea of mages not killing themselves with their own lightning bolts, enemies not always targeting the tank, etc. But I can't survive a simple random encounter in Amn. I can't go to the bridge district, as I get accosted by a mugger who turns out to be 3 muggers all smashing invis potions and rushing down my party.

 

FWIW I am fresh out of the Irenicus dungeon with minsc, jaheira, aerie, anomen, yoshimo, and a mage pc.

[Guest guest]

The thieves have about 3-4 potions each, not unrealistic in my opinion. They are muggers and so forth, and typically will only use 1 if any to mug people far less of a threat than the party is. Makes sense that they see you as a potential pay-day and decide to blow their potions et all trying to get at your gold and equipment. That's certainly one way to interpret the 'why' situation regarding this.

 

As for in-game tactics; try invis purge, hold person, web, entangle, free action (to avoid these effects yourself). Try running around/running away completely and finding another route. There's plenty ways to deal with it, and I personally like things not being a cakewalk.

 

Though, I will admit, the first 2 or 3 'you have been waylaid and must defend blah blah' are a bit much for a party fresh out of irenicus' dungeon and could do with being toned down. These too can be avoided; up to you to decide: Risk fighting and dying for potential loot, or run and live but never get at that loot.

 

If you're talking about muggers during actual areas e.g. slums, docks etc, then as I say you can avoid them and still come back to them another time. Try protection from fire and spreading out and fireballing them, they don't have too much hp.

 

The potions they do use, if you kill them fast enough, are dropped for you to use (depending on what you chose at install time) so that's also reasonable - i.e. they definitely do not have unlimited potions being the upshot of it all.

 

Regardless, I can't make you say 'yes, you have opened my eyes!' and that is not my intention, I fully respect that the above may not be satisfactory at all, and all I can say is keep going with the rest of the mod, it makes things more challenging and appropriate without just giving out random immunities etc to creatures. The mages are quite nice, yes.

[mikel123]

I suppose from the immersion perspective, you can imagine the thief looking at your party and thinking... wow, this guy has magical plate mail, a couple magic rings, a sweet helmet, a flaming sword in his scabbard, and HOLY CRAP IS THAT CARSOMYR? So yeah, I think he'd be willing to use up his life savings in invisibility potions (3-4k worth of gold pieces) for a chance at your party's 100k+ of items.

[Guest Zac]

I see your points. I've just been avoiding places I know there will be thief encounters like I avoid West Baltimore in real life. I still don't like the thief behavior and I wish there was a way to customize it. I think I'd like to just remove potions from the game entirely, for my party and the npcs both. Anyway what I need to do is get Keldorn for True Sight. But I'm afraid to go in to the sewers. Actually I'm trying to think of what I can actually do at this level. Maybe D'Arnise Keep.

[Guest Zac]

I suppose from the immersion perspective, you can imagine the thief looking at your party and thinking... wow, this guy has magical plate mail, a couple magic rings, a sweet helmet, a flaming sword in his scabbard, and HOLY CRAP IS THAT CARSOMYR? So yeah, I think he'd be willing to use up his life savings in invisibility potions (3-4k worth of gold pieces) for a chance at your party's 100k+ of items.

 

Sure, that would make sense, but I just got out of the dungeon. I guess Minsc has got the Sword of Chaos +2, that's gotta look pretty sweet. Other than that the best thing I'm carrying is like 400 gold, some spell scrolls, and a fine quarterstaff.

 

Guess I have these golden pantaloons as well.

[Guest guest]

De'Arnise is always a good idea. My personal advice is to have an invis potion ready on each and every party member at all times, just the one, for when things get sticky and you have to run.

 

You will probably get used to all that SCSII throws at you soon enough. It's basically a different game, tactically, now and so feels different, and different usually equals difficult since your previously much-loved spell-selection is thrown out of whack, etc. All I can say is, you will have a hard time going back to non-scsii, and will be like 'er, why is that thief just standing there pricking minsc in his full-plate with a toothpick, and that too front-on...'.

 

A lot of things just come down to personal preferance, and perhaps a component to disable such behaviour might be good in future, but you can probably manually remove potions via nearinfinity or something, and even edit the scripts to not use them i guess, if you know what you're doing.

[coaster]

How is Yoshimo's Detect Illusions ability? DI is a nice alternative to True Sight and has unlimited uses, but obviously you need a thief who has built their DI skill level up a bit.

[Guest Guest_Loz_*]

I see your points. I've just been avoiding places I know there will be thief encounters like I avoid West Baltimore in real life. I still don't like the thief behavior and I wish there was a way to customize it. I think I'd like to just remove potions from the game entirely, for my party and the npcs both. Anyway what I need to do is get Keldorn for True Sight. But I'm afraid to go in to the sewers. Actually I'm trying to think of what I can actually do at this level. Maybe D'Arnise Keep.

 

You can just not install the "potions for NPCs" component. Personally I do agree with you about invisibility potions and really potions in general - enemies get a few too many for my tastes. Personally I think two or three healing potions and one combat potion(or invis potion for thieves) is about all any one opponent should get, especially considering some enemies already have some in their vanilla inventories. I would prefer it if the customizable aspect of this component was how many potions the enemies get rather than the amount that will be dropped.

 

I'd encourage you not to give up on the mod though - there are a lot of excellent features and many battles are now much more challenging(in a fun way) than they were in the original game. Parties of humanoids and particularly ones that contain mages are a highlight. Yes, there are a couple of slightly cheesey things in the mod - the thieves with 3-4 invis potions is one, enemies such as mind flayers and demons being able to dimension door to members of your party they have never met is another. For the most part however the enemies won't do anything too frustrating.

[polytope]

Potions are given out based on level - it doesn't help that vanilla game muggers can be level 10/10 fighter/thieves, which is in itself unrealistic.

 

If you don't want muggers to get potions you can add a minimum charisma requirement to the SSL file "potion" in potion folder of SCSII; In each block under the line:

 

CheckStatGT(Myself,X,level)

 

add

 

CheckStatGT(Myself,6,CHR)

 

Muggers have 6 charisma but most other NPCs have more, so this is a useful breakpoint.

[Guest Zac]

Thanks polytope, that's awesome! So far I've just been running from almost every random encounter. My guys can take on trolls and yuan-ti no problem but a gang of muggers are practically gods.

 

I've been playing pretty much nonstop and I really like the mod as a whole. Mages are a lot tougher. Everybody's smarter.

 

The only thing I don't like is how everyone uses potions. I guess it's not so much cheesy as that I don't really like to use potions myself so that puts me at a disadvantage if every humanoid enemy I fight is using potions of giant strength, oil of speed, etc.

 

So I can just set the charisma requirement really high and then not worry about everyone having a ton of potions. Simple enough.

[Incantatar]

The only thing I don't like is how everyone uses potions. I guess it's not so much cheesy as that I don't really like to use potions myself so that puts me at a disadvantage if every humanoid enemy I fight is using potions of giant strength, oil of speed, etc.

Just don't install potions for NPCs if you don't like it. Else there not many potions added at all. Let your mages and druids cast Stoneskin/Ironskin/Mirror Image. Let your Cleric cast Sanctuary and buff the party with AC enhancing buffs. Cast Glitterdust, Inv. Purge, True Sight, Detect Inv., Remove Magic and Detect Illusion.

 

Cast the spell Inv 10ft Radius on your party before travelling between areas or at night in the docks/slums/bridge.

 

This is what SCS is about, thinking more strategic. Be grateful the mod uses potions and not unexplained resistances, abilties and immunities to give vanilla humanoids a fiighting chance against a hugely superior geared player party.