Third Edition Thoughts

[Ishad Nha]

Here I will be looking at approaches for running 3E versions of BG1, BG2, IWD1 and PST:

(1) The Icewind Gate 2 Approach
This approach uses the IWD2 engine to run the BG2 game, it takes (most?) BG2 files and translates them to a format that IWD2 can actually read. IWG2 can only use native IWD2 item codes, effects, triggers and so forth. This is a real headache, most BG2 and IWD2 codes/effects/triggers are common to both games, but there are some that are not.
You need both BG2 and IWD2 installed to play IWG2.
It creates a whole new (most of an) installation for IWD2.
Effectiveness of the IWG2 conversion is tied to the level of knowledge of IWD2. This knowledge is not as good as that for BG2. This is a bottleneck we can do without.

Nameless One's Delta version is a major improvement over Wes Weimer's abandoned Beta. With appropriate patching it can be played to the end.
If program has to be altered, we don't have the source code and no-one can find Nameless One.

BG1, IWD1 and PST:
If we were to use the IWG2 approach, for each of the three games the 2E conversion program has to be written, someone has to take the time to do this for each game.
Any such approach will have all the weakpoints of the IWG2 conversion.

(2) Another approach for BG1, BG2, IWD1 and PST:
Presently there is only one Gem program for all five Infinity games. We need a 3E version of Gem, call it "3E Gem". 3E Gem will natively run the files of each 2E game. Hence a lot of the current Gem code can be retained.
Some alteration on the fly will be needed, 2E and 3E are different in certain areas: XP awards, class skills and 2E dual/multi- class levels for starters. 3E Gem will handle the difference between 2E and 3E by internal translations.
Example: traps, locks and things that need to be found by Searching. 2E difficulty percentages can be left intact in the ARE files. The relevant PC's 3E class skills (scores for Disable Device, Open Lock or Search) can be converted to a notional 2E Open Locks or Detect Traps score. The 3E Gem uses the 2E mechanism for resolving the situation. (Alternately, 3E Gem can convert the 2E difficulty percentages to 3E DC scores and then handle things in the usual 3E way.)
Default: use IWG2-style translation rules for things that must be altered.

If IWD2 were shunted off to 3E Gem, the current Gem could be made a strictly 2E Gem. For all I know, 2E Gem might be simpler to maintain/expand than the current Gem.

Heart of Winter, HoW, is being counted as an extension of IWD1.

[lynx]

I know you're a big fan of conversions, but is there a point to this thread? I haven't seen any questions or the like.

[Ishad Nha]

I thought one of the original purposes of GemRB was to enable 3E playing of 2E Infinity games?

 

Until recently, IWD2 did not play properly on Gem, hence it was not possible to have a proper Icewind Gate 2 running on Gem. Hence you would not get any discussion of what was not then possible.

[Mike1072]

I thought one of the original purposes of GemRB was to enable 3E playing of 2E Infinity games?

 

Next up: 4E!

[Ishad Nha]

4E got such a bad press you wonder if anyone still plays it.

5E I will have to look into, it may be more like 1E or 2E...

[lynx]

I doubt it was ever meant fully. Toggling rules, mechanics and gui improvements, sure, but to also make data converters? I'm skeptical and don't share that vision.

 

As you can see from the successes of the TCs, it's mostly about incompatible data formats and less often about deep engine differences. So for a complete, let's say bg2-in-iwd2, it's easiest to just piggy back on the delta mod and perhaps modify some parts for better fidelity, since engine tweaks are possible and there's less of a need for hacks.

 

I also doubt on-the-fly conversion could be made smart and fast enough to be viable.

[SyntaxError]

I remember IWG2 was the original reason I found gemrb, so it would be nice if somehow gemrb made this more possible, but our IWD2 playability is still lacking. Pretty sure you cant even level up.

[Ishad Nha]

You can level up, you use DaleKeeper 2. You have a specimen IWD2 party whose XP you increase by the Console, then you level them up in IWD2. This tells you what you can increase in IWG2 (using Dale Keeper 2) and how much you can increase it by.

One approach is to leave BG2 largely intact but allow the introduction of a few key 3E features like easy multiclassing and end of biases against non-Humans.
XP and levels would be gained at the same rate as at present but you could 3E-style multiclassing.

[lynx]

if by biases you mean limited class selection in chargen, that's already trivially possible — you just edit a bunch of tables. They were already present in the original, but we also added the missing ones for barbarians.

 

Level up for iwd2 will materialize eventually. I just consider it too boring work for me to really start working on it. Who knows when I'll change my mind, so volunteers are very welcome. Come and leave a mark.

Lots of existing code could be reused, so it's mostly about windowing and refactoring chargen code, so it doesn't have to be duplicated.

[Ishad Nha]

One thing that might be possible even now is to give the multiclass non-Humans the ability to dual-class. This can be done now by manipulating some Bytes and bits in the save files, this turns a multiclass PC into a dual-class.

Alternately, you can create a human PC, have them dual class and then alter their race.