[idea] Detectable spells installed by default?

[K4thos]

I've decided to expand on EET Tweaks "Protagonist can die" component by adding another, more lore friendly option that would end the game only if player1 is really dead and not just mazed, charmed, imprisoned, turned to stone (in such case Bhaal essence is not lost), unless there are no party members left that could help getting protagonist out of this middle death stance. Temporary effects like maze and charm wouldn't require party at all.

In order to implement above option I will need detectable states for:
WIZARD_IMPRISONMENT
IMPRISONMENT_NO_SAVE
LICH_IMPRISON
CUTSCENE_IMPRISONMENT

And now I'm wondering why not just implement all detectable spells by default during EET installation instead of adding few during component installation? Are there any disadvantages in doing so? Why Beamdog didn't do it already?

 

edit: there are some new entries in states.2da.

edit2: yep, Beamdog added standard Detectable Spells already. Just nothing to detect imprisonment (maze spell effect) unless I missed something. Now I'm wondering if we are limited just to 200 states or we can add more like in tobex...

[Jarno Mikkola]

And now I'm wondering why not just implement all detectable spells by default during EET installation instead of adding few during component installation? Are there any disadvantages in doing so? Why the hell Beamdog didn't do it already?

It's always evolvi... well, the current most up to date version is in the atweaks, but here's the v3.

So that would tell you that it's not really something BeamDog could enforce on people. I am not an AI inventor, but I would expect little to no BAD effects coming from installing the DS to the EET by default.

Well, the DS will still "need" to be installed by SCS etc other mods as they need to check for the component... so longer install timers, and few more kb's... yeah, that's part of it.

[Roxanne]

I've decided to expand on EET Tweaks "Protagonist can die" component by adding another, more lore friendly option that would end the game only if player1 is really dead and not just mazed, charmed, imprisoned, turned to stone (in such case Bhaal essence is not lost), unless there are no party members left that could help getting protagonist out of this middle death stance. Temporary effects like maze and charm wouldn't require party at all.

 

In order to implement above option I will need detectable states for:

WIZARD_IMPRISONMENT

IMPRISONMENT_NO_SAVE

LICH_IMPRISON

CUTSCENE_IMPRISONMENT

 

And now I'm wondering why not just implement all detectable spells by default during EET installation instead of adding few during component installation? Are there any disadvantages in doing so? Why the hell Beamdog didn't do it already?

Deviating from your actual topic, i admit

This sounds like the tweak "Protagonist can die" was not just a leftover from the development phase but is supposed to become a feature of the game??? Who will revive PC in the early chapters of EET anyway? This is really bad news...for me.

And for main topic

It should rather be done by EET than to rely on some mod - that mod may add a lot of additional things to the game that may not be in everyone's interest. Something required by many others should be in the baseline package.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Who will revive PC in the early chapters of EET anyway?

A lots of the temples can do this, you don't need a cleric.

 

DS...

It should rather be done by EET than to rely on some mod - that mod may add a lot of additional things to the game that may not be in everyone's interest. Something required by many others should be in the baseline package.

Well, there's arguments for both sides, but like said, there shouldn't be very many reasons not to do it... if you patch the files instead of overwriting them !!!

[Roxanne]

Probably I miss something in the whole purpose of "Protagonist can die" and what it is good for.

Of course poor Imoen can carry the dead PC around through chapters1 and 2 until she has the money to visit a temple - or maybe she decides she is the better Bhaalspawn anyway and does not need you at all. You can create a lot of weird situations this way.

But, honestly, what is the intention behind this tweak??

[Jarno Mikkola]

But, honestly, what is the intention behind this tweak??

Well, it removes the inclination that the Cleric is really the only good character as the party leader if you consider the party composition... in non reload game... or whatever. -insert powerplay criteria-

 

Back to the topic in hand. DS, but with patching instead of overwrite !

[K4thos]

This sounds like the tweak "Protagonist can die" was not just a leftover from the development phase but is supposed to become a feature of the game??? Who will revive PC in the early chapters of EET anyway? This is really bad news...for me.

of course not. Everything from EET Tweaks is optional and not meant to migrate into main package. Protagonist can die was so easy to implement in EE engine (thanks to the IWD:EE codebase added in patch 1.3) that it would be a waste to not create a mod to do so.

 

Probably I miss something in the whole purpose of "Protagonist can die" and what it is good for.

Of course poor Imoen can carry the dead PC around through chapters1 and 2 until she has the money to visit a temple - or maybe she decides she is the better Bhaalspawn anyway and does not need you at all. You can create a lot of weird situations this way.

But, honestly, what is the intention behind this tweak??

It's an option for people who like to play this way. And the name is precise enough to not confuse players not interested in it. Let's say you play solo. Do you want temporary state like Maze or Charm kill you? That's one of the reasons why someone may be interested in such tweak and why I'm expanding on it right now with additional option.

 

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I've installed detectable spells but can't find anything in IDS file that would be related to Maze or Imprisonment. I thought this mod makes all spell effects in game detectable. Maybe there is another way to check it with vanilla triggers? CRE has STATE_NORMAL in such situations.

 

edit: btw. we can add FORBID_COMPONENT to "Protagonist can die", if you don't want anyone to play Sandrah and RTF with this tweak installed.

[Roxanne]

 

This sounds like the tweak "Protagonist can die" was not just a leftover from the development phase but is supposed to become a feature of the game??? Who will revive PC in the early chapters of EET anyway? This is really bad news...for me.

of course not. Everything from EET Tweaks is optional and not meant to migrate into main package. Protagonist can die was so easy to implement in EE engine (thanks to the IWD:EE codebase added in patch 1.3) that it would be a waste to not create a mod to do so.

 

Probably I miss something in the whole purpose of "Protagonist can die" and what it is good for.

Of course poor Imoen can carry the dead PC around through chapters1 and 2 until she has the money to visit a temple - or maybe she decides she is the better Bhaalspawn anyway and does not need you at all. You can create a lot of weird situations this way.

But, honestly, what is the intention behind this tweak??

It's an option for people who like to play this way. And the name is precise enough to not confuse players not interested in it. Let's say you play solo. Do you want temporary state like Maze or Charm kill you? That's one of the reasons why someone may be interested in such tweak and why I'm expanding on it right now with additional option.

 

---------------

 

I've installed detectable spells but can't find anything in IDS file that would be related to Maze or Imprisonment. I thought this mod makes all spell effects in game detectable. Maybe there is another way to check it with vanilla triggers? CRE has STATE_NORMAL in such situations.

 

edit: btw. we can add FORBID_COMPONENT to "Protagonist can die", if you don't want anyone to play Sandrah and RTF with this tweak installed.

 

I do not want to impose anything on anyone, I just wanted to understand why such a thing is there. You explained it and I see no problem with it at all.

[Sam.]

I've installed detectable spells but can't find anything in IDS file that would be related to Maze or Imprisonment. I thought this mod makes all spell effects in game detectable. Maybe there is another way to check it with vanilla triggers? CRE has STATE_NORMAL in such situations.

The only thing that comes to mind is P5Tweaks (download), which has a component to "Drop Items on Imprisonment." I have never checked out how it actually works, but it may be worth a look.