BUG: Loosen cleric/druid restriction

[Guest EdekaReweAldiLidl]

I installed the loosen restrictions for cleric and druid multi classes and I EEkeepered a dual class Fighter -> Cleric of Talos. The Katanas are unusable because although fighter-clerics can use them, they are unusable by the cleric and druid kits.

[Jarno Mikkola]

The mod is intended for legal dual-classes, and not like you said, modified characters. So the mod will not be edited to do that. Cause this is not a BUG!

You can edit the item files themselves... but that requires Near Infinity and doing it by hand, which needs Java Runtime.

PS, the kits were updated in the EE engine to include the restrictions, which were there not in the original game... telling that this is intended to be a kit specific restriction.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Jarno Mikkola

[Guest EdekaReweAldiLidl]

But if I did a valid dual class Cleric of Talos -> Fighter, would the Katanas work since Cleric kits are restricted from katanas?

Unkitted Cleric -> Fighter dual class can use Katanas?

[Jarno Mikkola]

6 hours ago, Guest EdekaReweAldiLidl said:

1) But if I did a valid dual class Cleric of Talos -> Fighter, would the Katanas work since Cleric kits are restricted from katanas?

2) Unkitted Cleric -> Fighter dual class can use Katanas?

3

1. No. As the kit restriction is what it is. No Katanas to Clerics of Talos... dual classed or not.

2. A cleric dualed to fighter or a Fighter to Cleric dual, would get to use a Katana, if this mod was installed, but not in the original game, as allowing that is exactly the thing this mod does.

[Guest EdekaReweAldiLidl]

18 hours ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

The mod is intended for legal dual-classes, and not like you said, modified characters. So the mod will not be edited to do that. Cause this is not a BUG!

You can edit the item files themselves... but that requires Near Infinity and doing it by hand, which needs Java Runtime.

PS, the kits were updated in the EE engine to include the restrictions, which were there not in the original game... telling that this is intended to be a kit specific restriction.

So first you said it's not a bug because Fighter -> Cleric of Talos is not a legal Dual Class. So I said that a Cleric of Talos -> Fighter is a valid Dual class and is affected by this bug.

3 hours ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

1. No. As the kit restriction is what it is. No Katanas to Clerics of Talos... dual classed or not.

2. A cleric dualed to fighter or a Fighter to Cleric dual, would get to use a Katana, if this mod was installed, but not in the original game, as allowing that is exactly the thing this mod does.

And then you said even to valid classes, it is not a bug because Katanas are not allowed to kitted Clerics of all classes: single classed or dual classed.

 

It's still not clear to me why it isn't a bug but I have a few ideas why:

 

1.) Gamer: Oh no! A Lv 2 Cleric of Talos -> Fighter can't use a normal Katana

Tweaks Anthology modders: A normal Katana is overpowered. Let the Cleric of Talos -> Fighter use Carsomyr +6. It isn't as overpowered as a normal Katana. Not a Bug

 

2.) Gamer: Oh no! A Lv 2 Cleric of Talos -> Fighter can't use a normal Katana

Tweaks Anthology modders: Cleric of Talos kit dualled to Fighter is overpowered because of the 2 new kit abilities. Just create an unkitted Cleric -> Fighter and we'll allow you to use a normal Katana because it's now balanced. Not a Bug.

 

3.) Gamer: Oh no! A Lv 2 Cleric of Talos -> Fighter can't use a normal Katana but he can use a normal two handed sword, bastard sword, axe, etc.

Tweaks Anthology modders: In the hands of a Cleric of Talos -> Fighter, a Katana is overpowered, but other bladed and piercing weapons are just fine. Just not Katanas. Not a Bug.

 

4.) Gamer: Oh no! A Lv 2 Cleric of Talos -> Fighter can't use a normal Katana but the Tweaks Anthology Readme says I can use any weapon that the other class can use.

Tweaks Anthology modders: We forgot to add it in the Readme. It will be updated that clerics and druids can use any weapons that the other class in the multi/dual class can use EXCEPT kitted Clerics and kitted Druids cannot use Katanas because we say so. Not a Bug.

 

5.) Gamer: Oh no! A Lv 2 Cleric of Talos -> Fighter can't use a normal Katana but the kit description doesn't say that Cleric of Talos (and other Cleric/Druid kits) are prohibited from using Katanas.

Tweaks Anthology modders: Yes, it's not in the description but actually the gods Lathander, Helm, Talos and the nature deities specifically prohibit the use of Katanas to their followers. Unkitted clerics and druids can however. Not a Bug.

 

6.) Gamer: Oh no! A Lv 2 Cleric of Talos -> Fighter can't use a normal Katana. Beamdog must have made a mistake because it is not consistent with the other weapon types

Tweaks Anthology modders: It is by Beamdog's design that Katanas must be specifically restricted from cleric and druid kits. The developers don't make mistakes. Remember when the developers said that throwing axes, hammers and daggers should have strength bonuses but they forgot to give this strength bonus to throwing daggers, which they patched afterwards. It is totally not a developer mistake. Not a Bug.

 

7.) Gamer: Oh no! A Lv 2 Cleric of Talos -> Fighter can't use a normal Katana. Can't this be fixed?

Tweaks Anthology modders: It's not a Bug but if you really want to, there is a workaround. You can use Near Infinity and fix it yourself but we won't do a permanent fix. Not a Bug.

 

8.) Gamer: Oh no! I think I found a bug.

Tweaks Anthology modders: Impossible. There can't be any bugs in Tweaks Anthology v9. We're perfect. Not a Bug.

 

Which is it?

[Jarno Mikkola]

9. Class restriction is not kit restriction.

Player: Cleric of Talos... with a Katana.

Mod maker: No Katana's for you... if you want to use a Katana, make a dual-class from a non-kitted cleric/fighter with this mod component installed.

Player: Great... I'll dual-class to a Fighter ha !

Mod maker: Sorry still, no Katana's for you this way either.

Player: Great... but could I ...

Mod maker: No promises...

Player... get a mod component that allows ALL sub-kits to use ALL the primary classes item restrictions.

Mod maker: A good question ! No promises... but that could happen ... but that requires CamDawg's personal input... as he would code the thing.

Player2: Ha, now my Kensai can use full plate.

Mod maker... or you could have just Dualed to a thief and got the UAI HLA at level 20. And your best bet is to call him Sarevok, with the Level 1 NPCs.

Player 2: Ouh cheese, you are deviant.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Jarno Mikkola

[Sam.]

3 hours ago, Guest EdekaReweAldiLidl said:

Tweaks Anthology modders:

Your mistake is in believing that Jarno is a "Tweaks Anthology modder" and that he speaks for anyone but himself.

[CamDawg]

On 7/19/2019 at 12:10 PM, Sam. said:

Your mistake is in believing that Jarno is a "Tweaks Anthology modder" and that he speaks for anyone but himself.

Oh sweet FSM, this.

I've tracked down the problem and fixed it--kits have two levels of unusability blocks, one for the class and one for the kit. Items which are already unusable by the parent class, such as katanas being unusable by clerics, should not have kit flags also set as they're redundant, but here we are. The component will now strip these flags as needed.