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One of the things which always bothered me with True grandmastery patch from CDTweaks  is how steep is climb from high mastery ( 4 stars) to grand ( 5 stars). In addition to +1 to damage and -2 to speed factor you get whooping +1 APR! I believed long time that this is mistake from patch authors and that grandmastery  should give only 1/2 attack on top from specialization for total of 1APR instead current whole attack for grand 1.5 APR . While I'm still not sure what interpretation is correct I decided to change wspatck from CDTweaks for personal use aiming to bring more balanced progression in which each hard won pipe should bring some obvious benefit without huge gap occurring between 4 and 5 stars. For starters I just changed wspecial to give just +2 to hit and 3 dmg for mastery for more balanced progression but discarded that idea in favor of taking half attack from grandmastery and giving it to high mastery. My two questions are is this table right for my intention of giving high mastery extra half attack on top of specialization and grandmastery one more half on top of it:

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2DA V1.0
0
   LEVEL1 2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50
0    0    0  0  0  0  0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1
1    0    0  0  0  0  0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1
2   -1   -1 -1 -1 -1 -1  1  1  1  1  1  1 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2
3   -1   -1 -1 -1 -1 -1  1  1  1  1  1  1 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2
4    1    1  1  1  1  1 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2
5   -2   -2 -2 -2 -2 -2  2  2  2  2  2  2 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3
 

 and second and more important would it be compatible with BIG TWEAKS component " WSPATCK for all (Taimon) -> Everybody gets ApR from proficiency, only Warriors from level" if installed before it, as part of CDTweaks? 

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Yes, and yes.

Also, maybe, just maybe, you should zero out the non profficiency line. Cause I am pretty sure that no matter how good fighter one would be, attacking with an unknown weapon would not make you faster if you just are better at fighting. Say like with plasma grenades. 🤣

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1 hour ago, Greenhorn said:

One of the things which always bothered me with True grandmastery patch from CDTweaks  is how steep is climb from high mastery ( 4 stars) to grand ( 5 stars). In addition to +1 to damage and -2 to speed factor you get whooping +1 APR! I believed long time that this is mistake from patch authors and that grandmastery  should give only 1/2 attack on top from specialization for total of 1APR instead current whole attack for grand 1.5 APR

Maybe neither here nor there, but this sounds like you favor the unmodded BG2 rule? In which case rather than being bothered by that mod, you can just not install it. 

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

Yes, and yes.

Also, maybe, just maybe, you should zero out the non profficiency line. Cause I am pretty sure that no matter how good fighter one would be, attacking with an unknown weapon would not make you faster if you just are better at fighting. Say like with plasma grenades. 🤣

Well in that case I believe non proficiency penalty would apply and I am pretty sure I won't come across it in TUTU. I think I will pass that but thank you for answer and happy Easter pal. :)

23 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Maybe neither here nor there, but this sounds like you favor the unmodded BG2 rule? In which case rather than being bothered by that mod, you can just not install it. 

It is Doc because if I favored old vanilla BG2 rules I would not install grandmastery patch which I find lesser evil. I like idea of extra attacks, dmg and THACO for fighters because that is  what they excel at after all in comparison to other classes , I just wasn't completely satisfied how it was implemented and now I found alternative to my liking. Can't blame me for trying. And happy Easter U2 Doc.  

Edited by Greenhorn
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2 hours ago, Greenhorn said:

Well in that case I believe non proficiency penalty would apply and I am pretty sure I won't come across it in TUTU.

But that's when you have the least amount of proff points you can invest, so you are sure to run into it. And what comes to the proff penalties, well you are capable to still get critical hits, and as the amount of attacks double, you can hit twice as often. With zero proficiency.

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I meant plasma grenades. :) And while I agree with you on principle I find that I'm not particularly inclined to mess up with engine non logical quirks especially when I will not use non proficiency weapons with anyone in my party (except well maybe in those extreme cases like clay golems and skeleton warriors if I will have misfortune of running into them ). :kungfu:

 

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Wait, am I crazy and/or misremembering things? (Actually don't answer the first part.)

Vanilla BG2/TOB:

  • proficiency = 1 APR plus warriors' 7th/13th level bonuses
  • specialized = 1.5 APR plus etc.
  • mastery = still 1.5 APR
  • high mastery = still 1.5 APR
  • grandmastery = 2 APR (i.e. +0.5 from high mastery)

The "True" Grandmastery mod:

  • yadda...
  • high mastery = still 1.5 APR
  • grandmastery = 2.5 APR (i.e. +1 from  high mastery)

Greenhorn said, "I didn't like that the mod gives a full +1 at GM, I prefer a smaller +0.5 bonus." Isn't that what the vanilla table gives?

That's partly a question about Greenhorn's post, but also for the BartyMae readme, which seems to claim this for vanilla:

  • proficiency = 1 APR plus warriors' 7th/13th level bonuses
  • specialized = 2 APR plus etc.
  • mastery = still 2 APR
  • high mastery = still 2 APR
  • grandmastery = still 2 APR (i.e. same as high mastery, and in fact same as specialized)

If I'm not mistaken that is totally wrong. Question then being: am I mistaken?

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Posted (edited)

Well, I wouldn't go as far to say that you are crazy Doc, but mistaken you are and  you are EE to the core besides. :p

BG2 wspatck:

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2DA V1.0
0
   LEVEL1 2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50
0    0    0  0  0  0  0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1
1    0    0  0  0  0  0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1
2   -1   -1 -1 -1 -1 -1  1  1  1  1  1  1 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2
3   -1   -1 -1 -1 -1 -1  1  1  1  1  1  1 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2
4   -1   -1 -1 -1 -1 -1  1  1  1  1  1  1 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2
5   -1   -1 -1 -1 -1 -1  1  1  1  1  1  1 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2
 

Don't see +1/2 for  vanilla  classic version for grandmastery .

But EE changes that apparently:Untitled.thumb.jpg.1eea445be7980970bf766b63236bb8ef.jpg

 

In short old BG2 doesn't give you half or full attack at grandmastery only 1/2 at spec. 

P.S. Sorry for all the editing but it seems I almost exceeded my attachment upload limit, must erase something ASAP.  

 

Edited by Greenhorn
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I read "on top of" as after TB#Tweaks, not before, so that's how I installed it.

Since you already posted the vanilla WSPATCK 2DA, for completeness I'll post one with bart_tweaks' Alternative Weapon Mastery installed. I also attached the file if you find the word wrap in the spoiler tag eye-straining.

Spoiler

2DA    V1.0
0
           LEVEL1     2          3          4          5          6          7          8          9          10         11         12         13         14         15         16         17         18         19         20         21         22         23         24         25         26         27         28         29         30         31         32         33         34         35         36         37         38         39         40         41         42         43         44         45         46         47         48         49         50         
0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          
1          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          
2          -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         -1         
3          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          
4          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1          1         
5          -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2         -2          

 

 

WSPATCK_bart_tweaks.2DA

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