Cleric/Ranger Caster Level Questions

[guyudennis]

(1) Is it correct that for a single-class ranger, his caster level is hardcoded to be 7 levels below his actual class level (based on the fact the ranger gains spell casting starting level 8 in a unmodded game)? I can change mxsplran.2da to move his spell progression to start earlier, for example to level 6 instead of level 8, but his caster level will still be at -7, right?

(2) What about Cleric/Ranger multiclass? Is he under the same penalty (inherited from his ranger class)? If so, does this penalty apply only for his "ranger spells" or the "cleric spells" are also impacted?

(3) If I apply a 191 (through his ranger CLAB) to bump his caster level by 7, would it apply to his "cleric spells" also? Meaning his "ranger spells" are ok now after the 191 bump, but his "cleric spells" are now over-leveled by 7?

(4) Does the baldur.lua option rangerclericspell (or something similar) have any impact on the question at hand (caster level) apart from controlling what spells he can gain through his ranger class?

Thanks in advance!

[jmerry]

(2) The cleric/ranger multiclass uses only the cleric tables and cleric level for their spell slots and caster level. The ranger levels only add spells known; the druid-only spells for what levels their ranger casting could reach if it were active by default, or all the druid-only spells if you set that .lua option.

(3) A 191 effect can either alter the caster level for divine spells or for arcane spells. Since both ranger spells and cleric spells are divine, it won't discriminate. A caster level boost in the ranger CLAB will apply to the cleric spells if the ranger is also a cleric. Fortunately, you can counter this. Add to the cleric CLAB a new spell that does the following: (1) Remove effects of (ranger caster level boost spell), (2) Protection from (ranger caster level boost spell).

(4) No. The only difference is when, if at all, your spellbook expands to include druid-only spells of various levels.

On #1, the lower caster level is definite but I don't know enough about the game to say how it's coded.

Edit: I just made a quick test. Cleric 2 dual-classed to ranger in BGEE with the level cap increased to 2.95 million. A ranger 2/cleric 17 with 18 Wisdom gets 4/3/3 spell slots (4 level 1 slots from 2+2 as a cleric 2, 3 level 2 spell slots from ranger 17, 3 level 3 spell slots from ranger 17). They get full access to all of the cleric spells despite their higher-level casting only being from the ranger side. Casting DUHM ... +1 to stats. Clearly, caster level is 2 rather than 10.

So, revised statement: The ranger/cleric combination uses whichever is better between ranger and cleric tables to determine how many spells of each level they get. With the wisdom boost included in the cleric side before comparison. Caster level for a ranger/cleric is the cleric level only, ignoring ranger level even if it's much higher. Spell selection is all cleric spells for all levels that they can cast, and druid spells added for levels that the ranger side could reach.

Edited July 24, 2022 by jmerry
I tested it

[guyudennis]

Thank you for the thorough reply and test. Much appreciated!

Edit: Now I just need to make the cleric CLAB ability to cancel my ranger caster level boost as you have suggested.

Edited July 24, 2022 by guyudennis

[Graion Dilach]

Multiclasses (including multiclass kits) use the base class's CLAB table, so you want to apply a new line to CLABPR01.2da for that.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Graion Dilach

[guyudennis]

Done and working as expected.

Thanks, everyone.

Edited July 24, 2022 by guyudennis

[jmerry]

Actually, you want that spell in all of the cleric CLABs - dual classes use the kit's CLAB for each side, and kits that don't apply to the current class default to the base class CLAB. So a stalker -> cleric uses stalker and base priest CLABs, while a priest of Lathander -> ranger uses priest of Lathander and base ranger CLABs.

All ranger kit CLABs: Base ranger CLABRN01, archer CLABRN02, stalker CLABRN03, beastmaster CLABRN04.

All cleric kit CLABs (as of the current EE): Base cleric CLABPR01, Talos CLABPR02, Helm CLABPR03, Lathander CLABPR04, Tyr OHTYR, Tempus OHTEMPUS.

Or if you care about compatibility with other mods, you can parse KITLIST.2DA for the kits assigned to each class and their CLABs. That'll get you everything but the base class CLABs.

[guyudennis]

Exactly how I did it. Thanks again. Super nice of you.

[polytope]

On 7/24/2022 at 12:50 PM, jmerry said:

Edit: I just made a quick test. Cleric 2 dual-classed to ranger in BGEE with the level cap increased to 2.95 million. A ranger 2/cleric 17 with 18 Wisdom gets 4/3/3 spell slots (4 level 1 slots from 2+2 as a cleric 2, 3 level 2 spell slots from ranger 17, 3 level 3 spell slots from ranger 17). They get full access to all of the cleric spells despite their higher-level casting only being from the ranger side. Casting DUHM ... +1 to stats. Clearly, caster level is 2 rather than 10.

Just curious, if you still have the save game file, does this apply to druid as well as cleric specific spells? I.e. does barkskin give AC6 (as for lowest level druid) or AC4 (as for 17th level ranger, or 10th level druid). I ask because I know that EE recoded ranger/clerics substantially.

[Rhastor]

Now I'm curious where to put rangerclericspell. If that option is set, can you get back the original (pre-EE) behavior wherein Cleric/Rangers get access to all the Druid spells of all levels?

[guyudennis]

On 7/28/2022 at 3:41 PM, polytope said:

Just curious, if you still have the save game file, does this apply to druid as well as cleric specific spells? I.e. does barkskin give AC6 (as for lowest level druid) or AC4 (as for 17th level ranger, or 10th level druid). I ask because I know that EE recoded ranger/clerics substantially.

I just tested, and my Cleric 2 / Ranger 17 dual had AC6 after casting Barkskin on herself. However, I don't know if it really answers your question, since in a unmodded game, Barksin is available to Clerics and Druids. Are there even any level-dependent Druid-specific spells up to level 4 in the vanilla game?

[guyudennis]

On 7/29/2022 at 1:48 AM, Rhastor said:

Now I'm curious where to put rangerclericspell. If that option is set, can you get back the original (pre-EE) behavior wherein Cleric/Rangers get access to all the Druid spells of all levels?

In your Baldur.lua file, search for SetPrivateProfileString('Game Options','Cleric Ranger Spells','1').

Changing from 1 to 0 here will give you the oBG/oBG2 "feature" of a Cleric/Ranger having access to all divine spells (less the Shaman-specific ones of course).

[polytope]

19 minutes ago, guyudennis said:

However, I don't know if it really answers your question, since in a unmodded game, Barksin is available to Clerics and Druids.

Yes Barkskin is a universal divine spell (even though it should be druid specific), but Draw Upon Holy Might is cleric/paladin only, I was thinking that only actual cleric spells might check cleric level.

It answers my question though, thanks, as we can conclude that all divine spells check cleric level. Interestingly this means that low level cleric -> ranger duals will be in some respects weaker than single class rangers late game, for instance their Armor of Faith will not be as good.

21 minutes ago, guyudennis said:

Are there even any level-dependent Druid-specific spells up to level 4 in the vanilla game?

Call Lightning appears to be the only one which scales with caster level.

 

[jmerry]

My testing was done without the "rangerclericspell" option active. Based on that, the spell availability rules for any sort of ranger/cleric in the EE:

Universal spells: always available if you can cast divine spells of that level, based on either of your class levels.

Cleric-only spells: always available if you can cast divine spells of that level, based on either of your class levels.

Druid-only spells: available if you can cast divine spells of that level, based on your ranger class level. If you set that hidden "rangerclericspell" option in the LUA, then they're like the other divine spells, available if you can cast that level based on either of your classes.

And of course, there's only one divine caster level, used for all spells. Which is always the cleric level.

It's as if the whole thing was coded without even taking the possibility of an early cleric -> ranger dual class into account. Actually, that's probably exactly what happened.

[polytope]

7 hours ago, jmerry said:

It's as if the whole thing was coded without even taking the possibility of an early cleric -> ranger dual class into account. Actually, that's probably exactly what happened.

I have heard of players dual classing clerics of Lathander to ranger (for their powerful Boon of Lathander special ability), but I think most people always did it the other way around, usually unkitted ranger 7-> cleric.

No wonder this feature went unnoticed for so long.