Stopping NPCs Leaving the Party

[Shadowblade]

3 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Also High Hedge was probably not designed to be explored before killing Mulahey. All those skeletons could be pretty lethal for a 1st-/2nd-level Charname. Of course repeat players may go there early - I go there before FAI, these days - but the game wasn’t designed in 1998 for these players.

I think the earlier suggestion, that putting him on that map is poor design, is more accurate.

 

3 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Ultimately, though, these characters are scripted with desires to get somewhere, and sleeping too much or making too many trips to the store to sell gobs of near-worthless halberds and short swords.

They may be "near worthless", but they are worth something. And at the beginning of the game, something is a lot more valuable than nothing. I now have a good stock of Bullets of Fire, Darts of Fire, and Arrows +1. So we went back to the Bergost Temple and killed the Vampiric Wolf. But most of my cash has come from selling scrolls and gems. A pearl necklace goes for 500 gold!  So now I tend to leave the heavier stuff behind. Bows have a decent weight to gold ratio.

 

3 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

I recommend using some mods that add containers. I usually have at least a gem bag and a potion bag when I’m in Nashkel, and sometimes a Bag of Holding too. 

I already have a Scroll Case, a Gem Bag and a Potions Case. Two dropped from somewhere and the third I bought at, IIRC, the Nashkel Carnival. I forget where to get the Bag of Holding, as I've not played for more than 10 years.

But it's good fun so far!  

[jastey]

2 hours ago, Shadowblade said:

I think the earlier suggestion, that putting him on that map is poor design, is more accurate.

I start to think that giving his "quest" a timer at all might be completely pointless. The bandit camp is something the player has to do to progress with the story in any case. It's not like original BG1 had much possibilities to dawdle away much time before that.

[jmerry]

On the Kivan timer, it's in two stages, both with variable amounts of time depending on the chapter. You get one block of time, then he warns you, then you get another block, then he leaves if you haven't reached the bandit camp. Each timer is 20 days in chapter 1, 14 days in chapter 2, or 7 days in chapter 3.

So if you pick him up early and dawdle, just make sure to get on with the plot once he warns you. 14 days is plenty to head to the mines and then to the camp, as long as you don't make too many side trips.

Minsc's timer is ten days until the warning, then six days to the breaking point. But really, there's no reason not to just head west for the rescue as soon as you recruit Minsc. Minsc and Edwin are there to guide you to the low-level areas to the west. (Edwin's timers are the same as Minsc's.)

On 9/5/2022 at 8:29 AM, Shadowblade said:

I already have a Scroll Case, a Gem Bag and a Potions Case. Two dropped from somewhere and the third I bought at, IIRC, the Nashkel Carnival. I forget where to get the Bag of Holding, as I've not played for more than 10 years.

But it's good fun so far!  

No Bag of Holding without mods. You have to wait for SoD or BG2 for one of those in the vanilla campaign. The scroll case is a gift from Firebead in Beregost, Neera has the gem bag, and the potion case is bought at High Hedge.

[Shadowblade]

On 9/11/2022 at 2:18 AM, jmerry said:

No Bag of Holding without mods. You have to wait for SoD or BG2 for one of those in the vanilla campaign. The scroll case is a gift from Firebead in Beregost, Neera has the gem bag, and the potion case is bought at High Hedge.

Ah, OK. Is the BoH in Tweaks Anthology?

I started a new game with my own custom portraits from other games. I mage a Gnome Illusionist/Thief and a Dwarf Fighter/Cleric. Now I wish I'd made a Half-Elf Fighter/Druid instead! I have Ajantis and Minsc and we rescued Dynamohum and then sent her off onto the Nashkel Carnival map to fight kobolds so I could get Branwen.

I wish Minsc or Kivan used two weapon style, though. It seems daft to have rangers that use bow and two-handed weapons.

I usually let new NPCs join to get their gold and any decent gear and then kick them. I stole Neera;s Gem Bag and got the Scroll Case and bought the Potion Case. But I bypassed Kivan at High Hedge. when the party is level 1, there's were only two skeletons. I don't know why they have such high damage resistance, skeletons usually take half damage from piercing and slashing, full damage from blunt.

I don't know if I did anything to change the NPCs, as last time Dynaheir had dagger proficiency, and this time she had sling, which is more useful.

Cheers!

 

[jmerry]

6 hours ago, Shadowblade said:

I don't know why they have such high damage resistance, skeletons usually take half damage from piercing and slashing, full damage from blunt.

That's also true in the BG series. But instead of missile attacks being either piercing or crushing, they're their own "missile" damage type, and skeletons have 90% missile damage resistance. And with these ranged attack skeletons, they also take extra damage from melee attacks until they switch to their swords. Switching to melee and charging them is pretty much always the best option.

There might be a Tweaks Anthology component that adds a bag of holding, but it's not a component I've ever installed.

[Shadowblade]

1 hour ago, jmerry said:

skeletons have 90% missile damage resistance... Switching to melee and charging them is pretty much always the best option.

90% is a bit excessive. I notice that sling bullet damage is also resisted. My Fighter/Cleirc mashes them with his Mace +1.

Why can I not dual class Imoen to Transmuter or Illusionist? She has 18 DEX and 17 INT. And I installed the modification for dual-classing, but it seems I can still make her only a Mage.

Cheers!

[jmerry]

As I said, both arrows and sling bullets have the "missile" damage type which skeletons are highly resistant to. A number of later enemies like Battle Horrors are fully immune to that damage type as well. Archery is very powerful in BG1, but you can't use it for everything.

As for dual-classing into a mage specialty ... I haven't ever messed with that, so I can't say exactly how the mod in question works, or even exactly what mod it is. I'm pretty sure there are multiple mods out there that enable dual-classing into kits. Or there are mods which alter dual-classing in other ways, like allowing it for non-humans - you might have installed that instead.

Oh ... another possibility I thought of. Unless you have a mod that changes it, Imoen has a null kit. This is not the same as the "base class" kit that characters without a kit created through the normal process have. The system may be looking at that and thinking "she has a kit, so she can't be allowed to dual into another kit". Because, after all, the engine doesn't allow a character to have more than one kit. If you have a save-editing tool, you can set Imoen's kit to "Base Class" (what EEKeeper calls it) or "MAGESCHOOL_GENERALIST" (what Near Infinity calls it) so she's properly an unkitted thief. And then try to dual-class her into a mage specialty.

[Thacobell]

19 hours ago, Shadowblade said:

 

I wish Minsc or Kivan used two weapon style, though. It seems daft to have rangers that use bow and two-handed weapons.

 

They come with 2 pips in two weapon style by default as rangers. Give them a point in something single handed, or a second point for minsc, who comes with a point in something else.

[subtledoctor]

14 hours ago, Shadowblade said:

Why can I not dual class Imoen to Transmuter or Illusionist? She has 18 DEX and 17 INT. And I installed the modification for dual-classing,

You mean Kjeron’s mod? It’s called “Dual to Kit” and AFAIK it is the only mid that allows this. 

Although, did you give Imoen a thief kit? Depending on the chosen options, even that mod might not allow it if the character already has a kit. 

Hard to answer stuff like this with knowing your weidu.log and what changes you have made to the game. 

[Shadowblade]

2 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

You mean Kjeron’s mod? It’s called “Dual to Kit”

No, the only mods I have are from The Tweaks Anthology.

But Illusionist and Transmuter are not "kits". In First Edition they would have been subclasses of Magic User (although Transmuter did not exist), in 2nd edit they are Specialists in the Wizard Schools of Illusion and Alteration Magick.

A "kit" would be something like the Blade, which is a Bard with some special bonuses and some penalties, or a Ranger Savage or Fighter Wizard Slayer, or something like that.

But Imoen is a Human Thief, and she has at least 15 in her prime requisites (DEX 18) and at least 17 in the prime requisites of the Transmuter and Illusionist classes (INT 17 and DEX 18), so she should be able to dual class into either of those, not just a Mage. I do recall that the base BG game only allows dual classing into a viable demi-human multi-class, so no Paladin/Sorcerers or Bard/Sorcerers! And it thinks that Illusionist/Thief is allowed only to Gnomes, even as a human Dual Class.

Anyway, I left her at the Friendly Arm when I realised she would not be just a weak Thief but also a weak Mage.

I'll give Dynaheir a go when we rescue her, although her vocal responses are second in irritation only to Jaheira, at least as far as I remember!

 

Cheers!

[Shadowblade]

16 hours ago, jmerry said:

Unless you have a mod that changes it, Imoen has a null kit. ...you can set Imoen's kit to "Base Class" (what EEKeeper calls it)

OK, thanks, I'll try that on an older save. I already dumped her at the FAI.

I saved before hand, just in case, as the BACK button does not work at all when Dual Classing. So you can't go part way just to see what happens. You have to fully dual class, or not click on Dual Class at all.

[subtledoctor]

1 hour ago, Shadowblade said:

No, the only mods I have are from The Tweaks Anthology.

But Illusionist and Transmuter are not "kits".

I know it's like that in AD&D, but in the BG2 engine (meaning, if you are playing SoA, ToB, Tutu, BGT, BGEE, BG2EE, IWDEE, SoD, or EET), wizard specialist subclasses are counted as kits. It's simply how these games have always worked, going back to BG1. Sorry. (Same goes for clerics - there are no real cleric kits in these games, they use the 'kit' mechanism to choose a deity to follow.)

Given that, Tweaks Anthology does not have any components that allow you do dual-class into kits. Only the 'Dual to Kit' mod allows that. I'm reasonably confident that you could install that mod mid-way through the game, and it would allow this. So this option is probably still open to you.

58 minutes ago, Shadowblade said:

as the BACK button does not work at all when Dual Classing

Yeah the problems with the BACK button when dual-classing go back years and years and years. Never been solved I guess; you just have to be disciplined and not use it.

Edited September 13, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Shadowblade]

On 9/13/2022 at 12:47 PM, Thacobell said:

They come with 2 pips in two weapon style by default as rangers. Give them a point in something single handed, or a second point for minsc, who comes with a point in something else.

Yes, I know how it works. But the first two Rangers are Minsc and Kivan and they start with Specialisation in Two-Handed Sword and Halberd respectively. In one game I gave Minsc Specialisation in Mace and then Mastery of Two Weapon Style as he levelled up, so he wielded the Stupifier and a Mace +1. Great for skeletons!

A Single Class Fighter is cool as, in BG, Two Weapon Style does not required a lighter and shorter weapon in their off hand. So a Fighter can have Two Weapon Style +++ and Long Sword +++++ by level 12. The only problem is they have to fight in melee all the time, and things like Web and Fireball can be a little dangerous.

Anyway, I just met Coran in Cloakwood. He is an Elven Fighter/Thief, not a Ranger, but he was Mastery of longbow, specialisation in long sword and better DEX than either Minsc or Kivan. He just has pretty crappy STR and CON.

Anyway, I dumped Minsc for Coran, despite his poor STR, as we don't need to hump Ankheg shrells anymore as we have 5 suits of Ankheg armour.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Shadowblade