Special NPC kits and ToF

[MrNatas]

After reading the patch notes of "Quayle has reconsidered his flirtation with the worship of Baervan, and has reaffirmed his faith to Baravar, even though that means he no longer gets a cool new kit. Truly, the path of Baravar's faithful is a difficult one." And having a good laugh it did make me wonder if it would be possible (or even) practical to make every NPC have a kit just for them. I know other mods have done this idea, Idobek's NPC Kitpack comes to mind.

I know David is busy fixing issues and has other project they are working on so I don't want to suggest something that would be to much for the scope of this project. But is that something that could be possible without too much extra work?

[RoyalProtector]

19 minutes ago, MrNatas said:

without too much extra work

Highly doubtful... Every NPC? 

If it was me, I'd be tempted to say, "no, I don't hate myself that much!". Even if we're talking about just joinable NPC's, that seems like too much work, but that's just me.

Though I think it's out of scope to modify joinable NPCs in such a way for this mod.

 

[DavidW]

My original design goal was to make sure every priest in the core game (not mods, and not SoD for now) had an in-game priest kit. I didn't read Quayle's bio carefully enough.

I think we have:

BG:

• Branwen: already had Tempus
• Viconia: Nightcloak of Shar (cleric kit)
• Yeslick: Axe of Clangeddin (fighter/cleric kit)
• Tiax: Assassin of Cyric (cleric/thief kit)
• Quayle: Nothing (my mistake)

BG2:

• Aerie: Air Elementalist of Baervan (cleric/mage kit)
• Viconia: Nightcloak of Shar (cleric kit)
• Anomen: Watcher of Helm (cleric kit)

I should probably add Baravar but it's not a priority.

[RoyalProtector]

Thankfully, Glint, the cleric from SoD is a disciple of Baravar too... So less work needed.

Corwin is an archer, which although feels more like a fighter specialized in ranged weapons... she has content in the game that suggests she is still a ranger, so probably doesn't need anything.

The bard NPC is a skald and the goblin is a shaman, which has a sort of kit of her own, because she can summon spirits without dancing too.

You know what BGEE has excessively? Thief joinable NPCs. Thieves everywhere! (C'mon, make Imoen, Skie and Safana different from each other!)

I would have liked to see more variety on type of thieves and whatever else that makes them different, without making Alora an obvious choice for thieving (because of her high thieving skills and special ring). But anyway, probably out of scope.

Edited March 9 by RoyalProtector

[Trouveur80]

As for mods, they often already have a kit : Drake is a priest of Tyr, Dave is a priest of Talos, Gavin is a priest of Lathander...

[marco_costa]

48 minutes ago, RoyalProtector said:

You know what BGEE has excessively? Thief joinable NPCs. Thieves everywhere! (C'mon, make Imoen, Skie and Safana different from each other!)

My prejudice is that thieves and fighters would be the most common adventuring classes, so I'm cool with it. I say this because I can't really support it from a minimum ability score requirement criteria, since mages and clerics also just require a middling 9  

[RoyalProtector]

2 minutes ago, marco_costa said:

thieves and fighters would be the most common adventuring classes

Sure... Just make them different, within the common class archetypes. The game needs more differentiating factors.

[Trouveur80]

17 hours ago, RoyalProtector said:

Highly doubtful... Every NPC? 

If it was me, I'd be tempted to say, "no, I don't hate myself that much!". Even if we're talking about just joinable NPC's, that seems like too much work, but that's just me.

Though I think it's out of scope to modify joinable NPCs in such a way for this mod.

 

It seems indeed easier to just use the improved NPC management to give kit to NPC.

[MrNatas]

18 hours ago, RoyalProtector said:

Highly doubtful... Every NPC? 

If it was me, I'd be tempted to say, "no, I don't hate myself that much!". Even if we're talking about just joinable NPC's, that seems like too much work, but that's just me.

Though I think it's out of scope to modify joinable NPCs in such a way for this mod.

I really meant Companions where the kits are felt rather then every NPC. That was my mistake. And yeah I'm basically felt the same way but, this was just my musing. Really my thoughts when it comes to "NPCs that probably need kits" are more for Imoen and Jaheira then any other. Jaheira while being the only 'Fighter/druid' is kind of bland and having something makes her stand out and would be neat. Edwin just needs a Red Wizard Kit, I think other mods do this so it's not that big of deal if ToF doesn't handle it.

2 hours ago, RoyalProtector said:

You know what BGEE has excessively? Thief joinable NPCs. Thieves everywhere! (C'mon, make Imoen, Skie and Safana different from each other!)

I would have liked to see more variety on type of thieves and whatever else that makes them different, without making Alora an obvious choice for thieving (because of her high thieving skills and special ring). But anyway, probably out of scope.

I really think that Imoen suffers the most from this. As a Thief/Mage she at least gets more variety in BG2EE but, there are so many thieves. Personally, I think Imoen should have something that is like Thief/Mage dual class as a kit. "Arcane Trickster" or "Candlekeep Spook" whatever you want to call it, lose some thief skills gain the ability to cast spells. 

[DavidW]

To be clear, I'm not interested in giving all NPCs kits. Priests are a bit of a special case.

[Chitown Willie]

12 hours ago, RoyalProtector said:

You know what BGEE has excessively? Thief joinable NPCs. Thieves everywhere! (C'mon, make Imoen, Skie and Safana different from each other!)

I would have liked to see more variety on type of thieves and whatever else that makes them different, without making Alora an obvious choice for thieving (because of her high thieving skills and special ring). But anyway, probably out of scope.

How about:

~NPCKIT/NPCKIT.TP2~ #0 #1400 // Give Imoen Adventurer Kit: v5

~S9BGEENPCTWEAKS/S9BGEENPCTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #49 // Make Safana a Swashbuckler: 1.1

~S9BGEENPCTWEAKS/S9BGEENPCTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #52 // Make Skie a Shadowdancer: 1.1

[Trouveur80]

33 minutes ago, Chitown Willie said:

How about:

~NPCKIT/NPCKIT.TP2~ #0 #1400 // Give Imoen Adventurer Kit: v5

~S9BGEENPCTWEAKS/S9BGEENPCTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #49 // Make Safana a Swashbuckler: 1.1

~S9BGEENPCTWEAKS/S9BGEENPCTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #52 // Make Skie a Shadowdancer: 1.1

I would say Imoen as a trickster from Artisan, Safana as a bounty hunter, and Skie unkit until BG2EE with Mage Hunter kit from Artisan. ^^

[RoyalProtector]

5 hours ago, Chitown Willie said:

Give Imoen Adventurer Kit

I think I remember that kit. The title matches Imoen, I think, although I didn't like the kit. Trickster, maybe, sounds good. Is there any indication in BGEE that she knows magic though? I don't remember if it's explained anywhere in the game -- beyond SoD, as to when she starts studying magic.

5 hours ago, Chitown Willie said:

Make Safana a Swashbuckler

Hmmm, not sure I'm vibing with swashbuckler Safana. Not even bounty hunter, but I could imagine Safana being a bounty hunter since she is a manipulator. What we can gather in BGEE is that she essentially an opportunistic looter of some sort.

6 hours ago, Chitown Willie said:

Make Skie a Shadowdancer

Mmmmmnope. I feel like if we're going to give Skie a pseudo-magical connection to shadow magic or the shadow plane or the supernatural ability to become invisible near shadows, her story or dialog should reflect that . I like functionality, but also making some sort of sense within the plot and character arc in the game.

5 hours ago, Trouveur80 said:

and Skie unkit until BG2EE with Mage Hunter

I do like the idea of making her a Mage Hunter in BG2EE, I haven't played Lava's  mod for Skie in BG2EE (only a quick playtest), but that does sound like a meaningful arc for her!

[Trouveur80]

9 hours ago, RoyalProtector said:

Trickster, maybe, sounds good. Is there any indication in BGEE that she knows magic though? I don't remember if it's explained anywhere in the game -- beyond SoD, as to when she starts studying magic.

Hmmm, not sure I'm vibing with swashbuckler Safana. Not even bounty hunter, but I could imagine Safana being a bounty hunter since she is a manipulator. What we can gather in BGEE is that she essentially an opportunistic looter of some sort.

In unmodded game, it's only bring to the table in SoD. But BG1 NPC Project adds Imoen learning some bit of magic after studying Tarnesh's spellbook, or telling Davaeron she always wanted to learn magic. Brandock mod also adds some banters about Imoen curiosity about magic and her capacity to learn it.

For Safana, she seeks some men to to fight for her, and in BG2 she does the bounty hunter job by deceipt. Not the NPC I would see in the frontline, fighting like an honorable warrior. So no swashbuckler for me too.

[RoyalProtector]

Just now, Trouveur80 said:

in BG2 she does the bounty hunter job by deceipt

Oh, right... I totally forgot she was even in BG2EE. She dies, if I recall. Alright, that's a good enough reason.

1 minute ago, Trouveur80 said:

But BG1 NPC Project adds Imoen learning some bit of magic after studying Tarnesh's spellbook

True. I always play with that one.