Suggestion

[Salk]

Hello!

 

I have just started a BGT game session with BG1 NPC Beta.

 

I would suggest to remove the overpowered item "Lord Foreshadow's Ring of Human Influence" from the game or else to make the party find it later on and in a much more reasonable occasion. In fact, why would Lord Foreshadow just give me his ring, like that?

 

Thanks!

[cmorgan]

This is in place because some folks want to see the romance content, but rolled characters with less than enough charisma to be able to start the romance tracks.

I know that there has been discussion over the years about this, especially as it is 4th wall breaking material, but the author intent is pretty clear - the best thing for us to do is to put a warning in the documentation, and have anyone who gets him dump the ring! (I would have to look at the triggers, but I have never gotten him - but then again, I always play with very high charisma PCs. I'm not ashamed to be a self-serving hero type in my own single player fantasy - everybody's gotta luv me!)

[Kulyok]

I usually use the ring - Coran, Gavin and Shar-Teel require me to. But, yep, "Let's put context adverts for BG2 and NWN into BG1!" wasn't the best of ideas in the first place - to me, at least.

[Domi]

Guys, I suggested it before to deal with the problem of it being "overpowered". Let's substitute it for Lord Foreshadow's Ring of Charisma, that will add 2 or 4 or whatever points in charisma (or even set it to 18) and take away that one spell that the ring has once per day so that people will stop complaining over it.

[cmorgan]

OK, sorry, didn't see it on my list - so I need to put out a request for a modified custom ring (based on the ingame ring) which sets Charisma to 18 but has no spell powers or other special effects... I will mark it on my "to do" list.

 

ETA on action on these things (gods i love summer vacation)

Monday: WeiDU testing and cleanup, reinstallation of clean updated base versions of BG1, BG2, ToB, EasyTutu, BGT, resynching backups.

Tuesday: 1/2 day (family stuff): Romantic Encounters finalization and submission.

Wednesday: Various Forums cleanup and updating of install order thread, gathering of data on problems in-project evidenced in playtesting.

Thursday: Revisit BG1 NPC and get this stuff done; if I estimate correctly, repairs should be in place and a new Beta ready for release this coming weekend.

Next Week: stupid horrible nasty frustrating silly documentation updates on LTs, FT's, code, and walkthroughs, so everyone can ignore them completely and thouroughly. Blah.

 

Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday, fly around the US using my mental powers to find CamDawg.

[Salk]

In my opinion, the Ring would still be a cheat-like item even if it "only" set Charisma to 18.

 

In the original game there are actually items that boost one characteristic to its maximum (Gauntlets of Ogre Power giving a 18/100 Strenght and Bracers of Dexterity setting it to 18) but the differences with the Ring introduced by you are this:

 

1 - The ring is obtained under no plausible circumstances. Lord Foreshadow just gives it to you, without any valid reason.

 

2 - In the original game, there are already items/means to improve the Charisma (Nymph Cloak, Book of Leadership and Influence, "Friends" spell,ecc.) so that the presence of such a poweful item is uncalled for.

 

3 - The player obtains this ring very early in the game, seriously compromising the game balance.

 

My suggestion is (in case eliminating the ring altogether isn't an option):

 

1 - Create a plausible background history to the Ring and let it be earned somehow by the player and not just given away like it is now.

 

2 - Limit its power to a reasonable bonus of 2-4 points of Charisma, making sure that no other benefit is granted.

 

Thanks for your attention!

[Kulyok]

I think it's too much work for little gain, but I'm not the one doing this.

 

But if you create an interesting quest which grants the user just such a ring in just such a fashion, I'll gladly play it as a standalone mod or a part of a different mod.

 

(Outside of the scope of BG1 NPC Project: it's probably best to limit BG1 NPC Project it to joinable Bioware NPCs in BG1).

[Salk]

Kulyok,

 

I am no modder but I have much fantasi so I could write something but then I couldn't turn it into a Mod because I lack the know-how.

 

If anybody here is willing to collaborate to this, I'd happily partecipate. It would be an honour.

 

However, Kulyok, let me just disagree about the gain being little. There are many players that don't create character with extremely high Charisma.

 

If I understood well, BG1 NPC works in such a way that to activate a romance, a minimum Charisma value is needed?

 

If so, why not let the Ring match such a minimum requirement?

 

And if the requirements would be different for different romances (like it'd sound plausible, depending on how objectively difficult is to win the heart of one NPC rather than one other - Ex. Shar-teela should be a hard romance), why not limit the Ring so that it sets the lowest value of Charisma needed to start the "easiest" romance only? After all, nowhere is written that all romances should be open to the player, no?

 

Thanks for discussing this with me, guys and girls!

[Domi]

I think Kulyok is right, and I think that the whole issue raises far too much angst to be honest. You want to add +2 or +4 bonus on it, fine, I don't care, but that whole demand for a quest imo is so excessive, that it's not even funny.

[cmorgan]

I am afraid that while I substantially agree with the wish that Bioware did 4th wall stuff and that it is bad for the game, I think (all due respect for good ideas, Salk) that the options we have are limited to the following:

1. Leave things as they are
   
2. Change the ring to set charisma.
   

I have no problem with having it set charisma at a level that allows all BG1 NPC Romances, as the intent of the ring *is* 4th wall breaking - it is a convenience item added strictly to allow people to experience the hard work of the modders involved in creating them, and is given by a 4th wall breaking NPC. I think I am going to vote "Caveat Emptor" on this one, and leave it that a player is warned in documentation about the intent of the ring, the ring is nerfed to the minimum CH required for all BG1 NPC romances to be allowed, and call it done. A player does have the coice of dropping it; I will make it worth 1gp so that it does not add material value to the game as well.

My target date for final wrapup and putting the bow and gift tag on The BG1 NPC Project, as fully realized and bugfixed as it can be, is next anniversary (3 months). The only updates expected after that are translations. I still have two quests that are not at full testing stage, and the final hiccups with the cross-platform identified bugs to get set - there are no more outstanding quests/work outside of Safana and Imoen, and those are listed as "Non-Project Mod Ideas", so others can make them into separate mods. Quest content, banters, etc., even from original authors, has been closed for several months now, so we really can't go back and throw open the floodgates!

[Salk]

Okay, people. I understand your point. Thanks particularly to cmorgan.

 

I think your intentions are already an improvement on the present situation though since I expect the ring to be nerfed to a lower CHA value in the next Beta.

 

Too bad about the unplausible way for the ring to enter the scene but hey, it is your mod to do what you think is best.

 

Regards!