Ieldra Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 I've always thought of realizing my personal vision of an arcane spellcaster as a modded kit. But as I'm no modder, despite having some insights into the game's structures, I have no idea about how difficult this would be to realize. I'd be prepared to put some work into this, but so far it's only an idea. Please tell me what you think, and I'd be especially thankful for any advice by experienced modders about technical difficulties or game balance. I've taken my inspiration from the various Monk remixes - this kit is intended to be for arcane casters what the Monk is to the fighting classes. So here's my mage kit proposal: The Spellweaver Description: Spellweavers have perfected the mental disciplines necessary for use of the Weave to a degree unparallelled by any other users of arcane magic. They're scholars as much as normal mages, but where those invest part of their time in the understanding and creation of magical artifacts, Spellweavers almost exclusively concentrate on developing their capacity to cast spells, which makes them much more powerful in that regard. In time, they develop powerful special abilities many mages have sought throughout their lives, but didn't have the necessary patience and dedication to claim for themselves. In much the same way as monks, Spellweavers' philosophy centers around the tenet that something can only be said to be truly your own if it cannot be taken from you. In this spirit, very high-level Spellweavers have taken this to the extreme - they don't even need their tongues and hands to cast spells any more. Spellweavers tend to look down on those mages who depend overmuch on "trinkets" and will almost never use any magical items themselves. Alignment Restrictions: none Rationale: Good and evil, law and chaos are positions about the way a society should function, and as such unconnected to individual mental discipline. I would argue the same for Monks. Ability Restrictions: INT 12, WIS 12 Rationale: Usually, I would set higher requirements, except that ability restrictions are really advantages in the context of the way abilities are set for a starting character. Apart from needing high INT to cast higher-level spells much as a normal mage does, Spellweavers profit from a high CON even more than normal mages (see the special abilities), and gain some of their abilities only with WIS 16+. Race restrictions: same as mages. Disadvantages: -cannot use *any* weapons, except those created by spells. -cannot use any Wands, Bracers, Cloaks or Jewelry -cannot use any magical robes or footwear unless they are specifically made for them (see below) -cannot cast spells from scrolls (can only use a scroll the learn the spell from it) -cannot use protection scrolls Rationale: I have started from the rule "Can't use any magical equipment nor any weapons". In some ways, this extreme is too inconvenient to be fun. One example: some way into ToB, there are enough pairs of Boots of Speed for everyone. Having one character lag behind isn't fun at all, and a built-in speed improvement like the Monk has doesn't fit with the Spellweaver concept. Another example is robes: I always want my characters to look somewhat impressive, and being stuck with the naked avatar for all of a character's story would be boring. So I'm of a mind to include a very limited set of convenience items with low-key powers (or none at all) that fit with the Spellweaver concept. A set of robes with no additional powers comes to mind, and for ToB a pair of special Boots of Speed. I'm still undecided about potion use - the restriction I would wish is that the Spellweaver can use potions that duplicate divine spells, but can't use potions that duplicate arcane spells. I don't know if that is possible. Note that there is also no restriction on Girdles Advantages (any immunities are only gained with a minimum WIS of 16): -gains 1 additional spell slot per spell level, as specialists, but without the school restriction -when reaching a new spell level, immediately learns one arcane spell of the new level without need for a scroll. -at 1st level, gains a -1 bonus to spellcasting speed, and an additional -1 for every five levels thereafter (i.e. at 6th, 11th etc.) (spells with casting speed 0 cannot be interrupted) -at 2nd level, gains the special ability "Refresh" (see below). This can be used once per day. Additional uses are gained once per 10 levels thereafter. -at 3rd level, gains +1 to all saving throws except against Breath Weapon, and an additional +1 for every 7 levels thereafter. -at level 4, gains immunity to sleep effects -at level 8, gains immunity to charm effects -at level 15, gains immunity to Confusion -at level 20, gains 2% Magic Resistance per level High-Level abilities: -Internal Power (see below, can be selected more than once) -Silent Magic (see below) -Subtle Magic (see below) (prerequisite: Silent Magic) -Improved Penetration (can be selected more than once) -Improved Alacrity (as the mage HLA) -Additional Spell Slots (as the mage HLAs) -Energy Blades (as the mage HLAs) Rationale: The direction I wanted to take is to improve an arcane caster's ability to cast spells in many ways. This includes several aspects: faster spellcasting, casting more spells, more effective spells, and casting spells under circumstances where it is not usually possible. Abilities descriptions: Refresh (activated special ability): Casting Time: 1 (effectively 0); Duration: 2 rounds + 1 round/5 levels; Area of Effect: Self While this ability is active, spells cast by the Spellweaver are immediately refreshed after casting, at a cost of 1 hp per spell level to the caster. Refresh can be switched off at will before it expires on its own. Internal Power (activated special ability): Casting Time: 7; Duration: 1 round/3 levels, Area of Effect: Self This is the ability to use one's own life force to power spells, enabling the caster to use magic in areas cut off from the Weave, or to cast spells normally in Wild Magic areas. Spells cast while this ability is on do 1 hp damage per spell level to the caster. Internal power can be switched off at will before it expires on its own. Silent Magic (permanent effect): The Spellweaver does not need to speak in order to cast a spell. Unlike Vocalize or Immunity to Silence, this ability really makes spellcasting silent Technical note: is it possible to selectively disable casting sounds for a character? Subtle Magic (permanent effect): The Spellweaver does not need to gesture in order to cast a spell. Combined with Silent Magic, this means that spells can be cast under any physical restraints such as Hold or Stun effects (they will still prevent the Spellweaver from moving as usual), and spellcasting is only disabled by some mental states. The Spellweaver just needs to concentrate in order to bring a magical effect into existence. Technical note: is it possible to selectively disable casting movements? Is it even desirable gameplay-wise? Maybe it's necessary to keep them just to see that something's going on? Improved Penetration (activated special ability): Casting Time: 10; Duration: 1 round/3 levels; Area of Effect: Self When this ability is activated, all spells cast are treated as one spell level higher than normal for the purpose of penetrating enemy protections. Progression of Non-HLA special abilities by level: 01 -1 casting speed 02 Refresh 1/day 03 +1 to saves (except against BW); select 1 level 2 spell 04 Immunity to sleep 05 Select 1 level 3 spell 06 -2 casting speed 07 Select 1 level 4 spell 08 Immunity to charm 09 Select 1 level 5 spell 10 +2 to saves (except against BW) 11 -3 casting speed 12 Refresh 2/day; select 1 level 6 spell 13 14 Select 1 level 7 spell 15 Immunity to Confusion 16 -4 casting speed; select 1 level 8 spell 17 +3 to saves (except against BW) 18 select 1 level 9 spell 19 20 Magic Resistance 2% per level 21 -5 casting speed 22 Refresh 3/day 23 24 +4 to saves (except against BW) 25 26 -6 casting speed 27 28 29 30 31 -7 casting speed, +5 to saves (except against BW) So, that's it. As I said, opinions and advice are welcome. Link to comment
Gabrielle Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Mage classes are hard coded so there is no way to add another "class" and it would be hard to make a psuedo kit to match the mages spell progression, etc. Link to comment
Azazello Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 There are one, maybe two, mods that use the term 'Spellweaver'. Not that the term is copyrighted... Link to comment
Ieldra Posted August 8, 2007 Author Share Posted August 8, 2007 Mage classes are hard coded so there is no way to add another "class" and it would be hard to make a psuedo kit to match the mages spell progression, etc. So that's why nobody has made any mage kits. I did wonder. I guess that means my idea is buried before it is really born... Does that include Sorcerers? Perhaps something can be done on that basis? Link to comment
Ankhesenpaaten Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Personally I like your idea Ieldra. I always wished there was something cooler to be done with mages. I hope someone knows the answer to your question regarding sorcerers. Maybe that will be a way to work it! Link to comment
Mike1072 Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Mage kits are only hard-coded in the sense that when you create a character, all of the available kit slots are filled up, so you wouldn't be able to choose it when making a new character. However, the kit will add to the game perfectly fine, and you can create NPCs that use it, or assign it to PCs via scripting. (The same applies for sorcerer and monk kits.) However, there are a number of other things you are trying to do with your kit that may be hard-coded, or at least extremely tricky to implement. I'll go through what you've posted and make notes. Assume that anything I skip shouldn't be too hard to do. Disadvantages:-cannot use *any* weapons, except those created by spells. -cannot use any Wands, Bracers, Cloaks or Jewelry -cannot use any magical robes or footwear unless they are specifically made for them (see below) -cannot cast spells from scrolls (can only use a scroll the learn the spell from it) -cannot use protection scrolls Quote from CamDawg's Kit Creation Tutorial (recommended reading): "Item files themselves only have 32 available usability "flags" that restrict them to a particular kit, and these are all used by the existing kits. This means there is no way to implement a unique set of restrictions for a new kit without restructuring usability for other kits." Since this is such an important feature of your kit, you probably want to keep it in instead of redesigning completely (but to redesign is preferable whenever possible). Be warned that this will fail miserably when trying to combine with mods that try to do the same thing (and possibly other mods too), so you might end up with something only you would want to use. What you would do is give an existing kit another class/kit's usability flag (forcing them to share the exact same items), and then give your kit the flag that is no longer being used. Then, you go through and patch every item to be usable/unusable by that flag according to what you want the kit to have access to. At least that's how I understand it - I've never been brave enough to try. It's a lot of work, and still not a great solution. -when reaching a new spell level, immediately learns one arcane spell of the new level without need for a scroll. For this, you may need to design your own spell(s) that give the choice of what to learn. Actually, doing this by dialogue might be easier, if less pretty. -at level 4, gains immunity to sleep effects-at level 8, gains immunity to charm effects -at level 15, gains immunity to Confusion [snip] Internal Power (activated special ability): Casting Time: 7; Duration: 1 round/3 levels, Area of Effect: Self This is the ability to use one's own life force to power spells, enabling the caster to use magic in areas cut off from the Weave, or to cast spells normally in Wild Magic areas. Spells cast while this ability is on do 1 hp damage per spell level to the caster. Internal power can be switched off at will before it expires on its own. I am guessing you can do all of these with immunity to opcodes, though the 1 hp damage might not be workable. Refresh (activated special ability):Casting Time: 1 (effectively 0); Duration: 2 rounds + 1 round/5 levels; Area of Effect: Self While this ability is active, spells cast by the Spellweaver are immediately refreshed after casting, at a cost of 1 hp per spell level to the caster. Refresh can be switched off at will before it expires on its own. [snip] Improved Penetration (activated special ability): Casting Time: 10; Duration: 1 round/3 levels; Area of Effect: Self When this ability is activated, all spells cast are treated as one spell level higher than normal for the purpose of penetrating enemy protections. I cannot think of a way to implement these. Maybe someone will think of something. Silent Magic (permanent effect):The Spellweaver does not need to speak in order to cast a spell. Unlike Vocalize or Immunity to Silence, this ability really makes spellcasting silent. Subtle Magic (permanent effect): The Spellweaver does not need to gesture in order to cast a spell. Combined with Silent Magic, this means that spells can be cast under any physical restraints such as Hold or Stun effects (they will still prevent the Spellweaver from moving as usual), and spellcasting is only disabled by some mental states. The Spellweaver just needs to concentrate in order to bring a magical effect into existence. I don't know if it is possible to remove the sounds, but it doesn't sound like your kit would suffer too much without that feature. As a matter of taste, it might not always be fun to cast spells without sound, either. I have no idea how you'd go about Hold/Stun semi-immunity. Good luck with this kit, you'll need it. Link to comment
Ieldra Posted August 9, 2007 Author Share Posted August 9, 2007 Thanks for the infomation, Mike1072. I've read the kit creation tutorial, and one solution comes to mind: Could I restructure an existing rarely-used mage kit (renaming should be no problem)? Of course that would mean that all NPCs with this kit would be transformed, but I can't think of, for instance, an NPC Diviner or Abjurer in the game - at least not an important one (heh, they're my favorite mage specialists, but even so I can't play two kits in the same game;)). If I could do that, players would be able to select my new kit at character creation at the price of not being able to use one specific mage kit. And implementing the item limitations wouldn't be much of a problem any more - only a lot of work with item patching. As for the spell selection at level-up: is the Sorcerer spell selection interface hard-coded or can I use it in some way for a mage kit? About the Refresh ability: there is a mod that does this for all mages (iiSpellAdjustment), where you can select a refresh timer. Works very well - I have installed it with a timer of 120 seconds to avoid having to rest after every battle. I think it works with a script, which means the taking of damage could also be implemented. I'll have to look into this. Perhaps I should take these questions to the Modding Q&A forum... I'll do that from now on, but I'd still be thankful for any answers here. All in all, maybe this is not as hopeless as it seemed only yesterday... Link to comment
Mike1072 Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Thanks for the infomation, Mike1072. I've read the kit creation tutorial, and one solution comes to mind: Could I restructure an existing rarely-used mage kit (renaming should be no problem)? Of course that would mean that all NPCs with this kit would be transformed, but I can't think of, for instance, an NPC Diviner or Abjurer in the game - at least not an important one (heh, they're my favorite mage specialists, but even so I can't play two kits in the same game;)). If I could do that, players would be able to select my new kit at character creation at the price of not being able to use one specific mage kit. And implementing the item limitations wouldn't be much of a problem any more - only a lot of work with item patching. I don't have much any experience with overwriting kits, so someone else might have to chip in here. I've noticed that mages don't have CLAB (for abilities) or K_M_X (for determining which kits/classes are available for the different races) files by default, and I seem to recall someone discovering that adding them or acting as if they were there did not work, so if this is the case you might have troubles. By the way, you can call me Mike. As for the spell selection at level-up: is the Sorcerer spell selection interface hard-coded or can I use it in some way for a mage kit? I don't know of any way to invoke it. I was thinking of the effect 214 to reference a SPWIXXX.2DA, which contains different spells that apply effect 147 and/or modify a global to invoke a script... I was making a sorcerer kit a while back and I was going to try to use this to choose spells, but I've yet to get around to it so I can't vouch as to how well it works. All in all, maybe this is not as hopeless as it seemed only yesterday... It's great to hear that you have an optimistic attitude about it. Who knows, this kit might see the light of day! Link to comment
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