Comments on Luck Be A Lady

[Bri]

Where to begin. All of these were well-written Domi. I only encountered a few phrases that didn't quite scan right (I chalk this up with English being a second language. And this isn't meant to be a complaint either. The fact you are so clear in general is awing.)

 

Not that Coran is my favorite character, nor is he my hated, he just tends to be second string in my games.

 

Now to more specific comments:

 

The Whisperer:

I will be honest, the thought of Coran hitting on Catti-Brie was priceless. I normally could care less for Drizzt, but I do like Catti.

 

My favorite line?

"So, maybe he was of the sleazy ilk."

Very few people use ilk anymore ;-)

 

And I did like his plan to get a hold of the medallion. Outrunning an arrow...well, adrenaline is always good.

 

 

The Three Sighing Elves:

At first I was thinking of those three monkeys: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil. Of course, Xan kinda does away with the last with his "We are doomed."

 

And what can I say, courtly love might be the stuff of ballads, but it really isn't satisfying. Glad to see Minuwiel knows her mind.

 

 

The Game of Nos and Maybes

"I was then in my nineties..." Coran started, and almost chuckled at Minuwiel's condescending smile

 

LOL...only an elf can say something like that with a straight face ;-)

 

 

Eyes of a Basilisk:

Marble statues. Man, won't the statue of Keldorn be jealous. He is only made of granite.

 

 

The Virga

I must admit I did like that Min couldn't quite raise the dead. It kept the intensity of the emotion she was feeling. In some ways, it cheapens the life and death struggles when the dead could be brought back, either with sufficient power or with enough money.

[Bri]

A nice addition to your story Domi.

 

Of course, when I read this part:

"Don’t hug air, hug me.â€Â

 

I was expecting Coran to offer his own air instead.

 

And the end of your post actually nailed some storylines and whatnot that are in the back of my mind. Yes, maybe Gorion came to care for his ward, but the fact that there was a plan to use the Bhaalspawn as a pawn...well, that would rankle, and throw your whole past into a jaundiced light.

 

If they only cared about you for your power, then everything that was told to you up to that point was a lie...and not much different than what individuals of evil intent would do.

[Domi]

Thanks Bri. I think the biggest problem with Gorion for this particular character is that he raised her as a human. She came the full circle from human upbringing to the entirely elven company back to entirely human company - I know it does not sound strongly enough in the previous stories, but that's what I am intending for the conclusion. We will see

[Kulyok]

Oh. :-((((((((((((

 

So it is over? *sigh*

 

A beautiful story, but so sad. :-( What has happened to Xan and Kivan, by the way? Have they returned to their homes?

 

Minu-Imoen lines were very believable. :-)

[Domi]

Nope, there is one last story when I get to it

[Kulyok]

Well, with me being ESL, I do not exactly know what "mushy" means, Lingvo Online takes me only that far - but I haven't read that impressive a story since the times of Kendis' Im Suular - and your story surpasses it by far, in my book.

 

And yes, it made me cry. *glares at the onlookers*.

 

Oh, Domi, and if you ever finish, or decide to continue "The Ninth Portents", there'll be the best box of Russian chocolate coming your way to Canada - and I mean it.

 

 

That's it for the praise. For critique, you are always welcome to ask for a through beta-reading.

[Domi]

Hi Kulyok, thank you very much, though I think that Kendis has lots more stars in her 'writing' feat than I She remains one of my favorite authors of the Old Attic.

 

'Mushy' is something excessively tender or emotional; especially: mawkishly amorous (as per www.m-w.com - great dictionary btw). The problem is that I look at this cycle and I can spot from a hundred paces away that Minuwiel's name is really Mary-Sue and that Kivan is the author's male to drool over. Which is exceprtionally bad because he is not the romantic interest and yet author's attutude transfers to Mary and even Mary starts acting out of character.

 

Basically I'd like to learn how to write drier and plot-heavy. The problem with the "Ninth Portents" is that it is presently above my abilities. I have to muster 10-15K short story before trying a 50-100K and concentrate on the stories where protagonists are not the tragic Ladies of Murder, and where romance is not taking the central stage. I do like writing romances and romantic scenes, but I want them to be subservient to the plot, not vice versa. Hence, I would like to write a few 'serious' short learning stories, not BG fanfiction.

 

But BG fan-fiction is great fun and helps me to come up with the dialogue material for mods, and that's what I want it to be - fun. I have tried to have one of my most serious fan-fiction stories edited and beta'd to see if I can do drafting and re-drafting Doro's style. I can, and it helps a lot, but it also takes a lot of time and efforts both from the gracious reviewers and from myself. So, I'd rather not do it for the stories written exclusevly for fun.

 

That's said I do desperately *need* a beta reader for a 'serious' short story I am working on now, but it is generic FR, rather than Baldur's Gate.

[Kulyok]

The problem is that I look at this cycle and I can spot from a hundred paces away that Minuwiel's name is really Mary-Sue and that Kivan is the author's male to drool over. Which is exceprtionally bad because he is not the romantic interest and yet author's attutude transfers to Mary and even Mary starts acting out of character.

 

I'll have to disagree on that point - if I replace Kivan with Xan, the statement would stay true for me, while I know it is not so.

 

But I feel for Xan (Kivan, and Coran, too, btw, but a little bit less) as a reader, not a writer. You might feel for Kivan, as a reader - and confuse your perception of a reader and that of a writer.

 

I may reassure you (or may not?) that phrases "She prayed for the ranger to find food and shelter tonight" - or Minu's crying at the hilltop - were not screaming "author likes Kivan" for me. If anything, I am a little jealous that you were not making Xan more pleasant, Kivan more lovable and Coran less bastardly - a hard task, indeed. For me, it is always hard not to show my dislike for Imoen, for example.

 

Actually, if you transferred some of yourself into Minu, it only improved the story - she was one of these very rare protagonists I felt something else that boredom and outright dislike for. Normally it does not happen, alas.

 

Basically I'd like to learn how to write drier and plot-heavy. The problem with the "Ninth Portents" is that it is presently above my abilities. I have to muster 10-15K short story before trying a 50-100K and concentrate on the stories where protagonists are not the tragic Ladies of Murder, and where romance is not taking the central stage. I do like writing romances and romantic scenes, but I want them to be subservient to the plot, not vice versa. Hence, I would like to write a few 'serious' short learning stories, not BG fanfiction.

 

Oh, I perfectly understand. I have some ideas that I feel are above my present station, as well, sigh! But I am still in the stage of the Ladies of Murder. (Hades, how did you guess that I wanted to name my serial "Lady of Murder" at some point! )

 

If, however, at some point you will feel up to the task - do not let the lack of comments distract you:it will certainly be read.

 

I have tried to have one of my most serious fan-fiction stories edited and beta'd to see if I can do drafting and re-drafting Doro's style. I can, and it helps a lot, but it also takes a lot of time and efforts both from the gracious reviewers and from myself. So, I'd rather not do it for the stories written exclusevly for fun.

 

The feeling is very familiar - that's why I normally do not ask for critique when I post my serial, as well. It is good to know I am not alone in this matter.

 

That's said I do desperately *need* a beta reader for a 'serious' short story I am working on now, but it is generic FR, rather than Baldur's Gate.

 

Well, I hope this weekend of mine will be relatively free - so please send it to my email, and I will do my best to work it over by Monday. Be prepared for a very honest opinion, however.

[Domi]

Thank you for your offer: I will see if I can managed to get to the logical break in the story and send it over.

 

On the side note: coments are nice and warming, but they are not my motivation to write

 

I am glad that Kivan does not stick out like a sore thumb of a 'perfect man' for you as a reader. I recieved a similar comment from Bren who told me that she sees Xan 'winning the girl'. While it is amusing it is also troubling. I trust that loving every character in a story is important and helps avoiding the pitfall of making the secondary characters substanceless entities with names.

 

Yet - mia culpa!- I started with Kivan as the center of gravity and I let him remain the center of gravity here. I loved Kivan too much and I sacrificed the two main characters to him. In all honesty I think I did better even in the obscene 'Under No Circumstances' where I promptly and immediately put Kivan in the middle of the temple and worshiped him openly.

 

Observe how Minuwiel does not stay in character. She starts jolly - the true Coran's girl, and then she falls into the trap of being tragic, lonely and important. Because the author really wants her to be a Kivan's girl. Coran can not love the 'tragic, lonely and important' so it in turn destroys the logic of his character, requiring a man who is Coran only in name in the Summersnow. This single fact that Minuwiel loves Coran that is more kivanesque than Coran has any right to be does a murder. I, as an author, force Minuwiel to force Coran into Kivan's mold. And I let Coran - the chaotic, independent, uncontrollable Coran - to go along with it. Bad. very bad.

 

Now, the funnest part is that the ending with Ellesime is a re-write of the Chapter 13 of the long-abandoned 'Black Ranger/Hilt'. The protagonist in the Black Ranger is a human Lyddar who constructed an elaborate scheme of deceit and had Valygar as her nemesis and tragic would be lover.

 

I could only pull it off because both Lyddar and Minuwiel wound down to the same doomed stereotype, and they are both Mary Sues. They both, after the author look for the same man as a romantic interest. They both have the same attitude to the same characters: annoyed by Imoen, fascinated by Solaufein, warmed by Cernd, dismissive of Anomen... If Minuwiel was to meet Haer'Dalis and Mazzy - the only other characters that Lyddar deals with and Minuwiel does not, she'd jump right into a grudging and amused respect of the tiefling and a cold acceptance that Mazzy is a better woman.

 

A stand-alone, strong character will never be able to use another character's mended hand-downs.

 

Heh, so I know that it does not hold water, but I still think it's an entertaining read.

[Kulyok]

In all honesty I think I did better even in the obscene 'Under No Circumstances' where I promptly and immediately put Kivan in the middle of the temple and worshiped him openly.

 

I am sorry, but I really disagree here. "Under No Consequences" was different. I am talking about my opinion only, of course, but for me

it was, firstly, one of your earlier works, where the style was very different - and I hope that I do not offend if I say it has very much improved, and, secondly, Kivan in UNC was - well, for me it had the same fault as he did in Kendis' "Im Suular", and drastically so in Silver's "Searching for the Truth" - he fell in love with another, flatly and utterly - which, in my opinion, cannot happen without very solid and well-written backstory.

 

While in "The eyes of the Basilisk", in the "Elfsong", in "Three Sighing Elves" - heck, in every single story - your Kivan has Kivan written all over him, and yet Coran stays the hero of the story and love interest, and even Xan gets his proper place.

 

About Deheriana, though: I think that Kivan Romance is do-able - namely, for a Bhaalspawn N'Tel'Quess, because of her mortality and absence of an afterlife as such - Kivan could comfort her somewhat, and I see Deheriana not begrudging him that when he finally departs from the Prime.

 

 

Observe how Minuwiel does not stay in character. She starts jolly - the true Coran's girl, and then she falls into the trap of being tragic, lonely and important. Because the author really wants her to be a Kivan's girl. Coran can not love the 'tragic, lonely and important' so it in turn destroys the logic of his character, requiring a man who is Coran only in name in the Summersnow. This single fact that Minuwiel loves Coran that is more kivanesque than Coran has any right to be does a murder. I, as an author, force Minuwiel to force Coran into Kivan's mold. And I let Coran - the chaotic, independent, uncontrollable Coran - to go along with it. Bad. very bad.

 

Well, I have noticed warning signs in Coran Romance - commitment dialogue, yes. Though I did not link it with Kivan, I just thought: "Coran and commitment? Er... "

 

In Cloudpeaks, however, I have seen Coran as simply being sympathetic to Minu's plight - Bhaal's heritage could not have stayed hidden forever, and so, he is simply being understanding - he does love the woman, after all.

 

But I think that Imoen's visit was 'in time', however cynical it may sound. If not for their intervention, Coran would get bored, and their relationship would inevitablly grow strained. Anyway, that's my take on the situation, as a reader.

 

I could only pull it off because both Lyddar and Minuwiel wound down to the same doomed stereotype, and they are both Mary Sues. They both, after the author look for the same man as a romantic interest. They both have the same attitude to the same characters: annoyed by Imoen, fascinated by Solaufein, warmed by Cernd, dismissive of Anomen... If Minuwiel was to meet Haer'Dalis and Mazzy - the only other characters that Lyddar deals with and Minuwiel does not, she'd jump right into a grudging and amused respect of the tiefling and a cold acceptance that Mazzy is a better woman.

 

A stand-alone, strong character will never be able to use another character's mended hand-downs.

 

If you never post Lyddar's story, it will be all right. I see what you mean, however - it annoys me to no end when the same things happen in different stories of the same author.

 

Though, if you speak about confusing characters - you may want to watch out about Kivan and Valygar. It seems to me sometimes that Kivan becomes Valygar and vice versa. Might be my overly active imagination, though.

 

Now, the funnest part is that the ending with Ellesime is a re-write of the Chapter 13 of the long-abandoned 'Black Ranger/Hilt'. The protagonist in the Black Ranger is a human Lyddar who constructed an elaborate scheme of deceit and had Valygar as her nemesis and tragic would be lover.

 

About Ellesime and the ending: Ellesime's monologue could be put into a separate story, yes.

 

But, Lyddar or Minu, it comes to the same thing - Minu being alone, permanently, and her kin dead, as the story says. It serves the conclusion of the cycle well - I did not even wonder whether she becomes a god or not - "What is the point?" - and it is a good thing, the cycle being properly finished.

 

Obviously, I have not read the first version of your story, but I think that you are forgetting that many Bhaalspawn come to this point of the way alone - and in this story, only the fact that Minu is alone from now on matters. So, it would really fit many characters.

[Domi]

I only see Kivan's romance possible if Deheriana is lost - I will present my case soon enough in BG2-SoA hopefully. Yes, I have learned a great deal since the Under No Circumstances and one could not offend me by saying that it was flawed. It was *badly* flawed. And I agree wholeheartedly that the thing you have pointed out was its major problem. It also made Kivan into a pointy-eared human and it went far afield with that. Not as far as Silver's, but close enough.

 

Well, I have noticed warning signs in Coran Romance - commitment dialogue, yes. Though I did not link it with Kivan, I just thought: "Coran and commitment? Er...

 

No, that was not Kivan's fault. That was the rewarding ending asked for by many players. That's said I *do* believe that he can be hooked to make a commitment, though it would remained unspoken (a luxury we do not have in a mod). I would have preffered it to happen in SoA after 50 or so dialogues summarily in BG1 and BG2 (just like a certain Xan's lovetalk btw) or simply mentioned in the epilogue but I have no desire to go that way, so I put it in the open dialogue. That's why I always say: take CN path. Nobody playes it, though. Damn.

 

Yep, all three elven males in BG1 are not exactly the romance-to-go material but that's why we love them so

 

Though, if you speak about confusing characters - you may want to watch out about Kivan and Valygar. It seems to me sometimes that Kivan becomes Valygar and vice versa. Might be my overly active imagination, though.

 

Kivan and Valygar are difficult, especially when you write a lot of dialogue, because Valygar is an easily recognisable spin off Kivan. But Kivan is by far the harder and less flexible man of the two. Domygar Corthala pulled Kivan's way in SoA because I desperately wanted to write Kivan. Domygar -ToB is not contaminated with Kivan - because I was finally writing Domivan at the time. If he is a valid Valygar-in-love - it still remains to be seen.

[Kulyok]

No, that was not Kivan's fault. That was the rewarding ending asked for by many players. That's said I *do* believe that he can be hooked to make a commitment, though it would remained unspoken (a luxury we do not have in a mod). I would have preffered it to happen in SoA after 50 or so dialogues summarily in BG1 and BG2 (just like a certain Xan's lovetalk btw) or simply mentioned in the epilogue but I have no desire to go that way, so I put it in the open dialogue. That's why I always say: take CN path. Nobody playes it, though. Damn.

 

Hey, I did! It was sorta cute when he said in the evening: "Let's break up", and I said: "But let's do it one more time first, eh?" - one of my favourite places in the romance. It was wonderfully done - something the girl is not likely to experience to RL, but so attractive just the same.

 

It really breaks my heart to set him on the neutral path, though: I have to say something nasty in "moon in the helmet" dialogue. *sigh* Last time, I pressed the button with closed eyes.

 

I agree about mod design vs commitment lovetalk - I wish there were seventy lovetalks or so. But, alas, alas...

 

Kivan and Valygar are difficult, especially when you write a lot of dialogue, because Valygar is an easily recognisable spin off Kivan. But Kivan is by far the harder and less flexible man of the two. Domygar Corthala pulled Kivan's way in SoA because I desperately wanted to write Kivan. Domygar -ToB is not contaminated with Kivan - because I was finally writing Domivan at the time. If he is a valid Valygar-in-love - it still remains to be seen.

 

Good luck writing it! When Valygar-TOB is released, I'll certainly play it - if it does not require a long and painful process of uninstalling TUTU.

 

EDIT: Domi, wait: you've said Kivan-SOA? So you've decided not to write anything of the kind for BG1?

[Domi]

I think I am pretty much done with every piece of writing for BG1 appart from Dynaheir's PIDs. Weird and happy feeling it is.

[Neferit]

Wow! I think, this stories are really good. But I didn't understand this part:

All of her kin was dead. She stood alone.

How has it meant?

[Domi]

Thank you

 

As for what I meant by that - Elves are communal beings by nature. Minuwiel grew away from an elven settlement, so she instinctively tried to emulate that connection, creating her own small bonded community traveling with Xan, Coran and Kivan. All of them died on her, leaving her to her Bhaal's heritage and solitude of a Bhaalspawn, as Ellesime had noted. It's not a central thought of the stories, not even an essential part, it's just something I kept in mind while writting the stuff.