Yoshimo's past in Kara-Tur?

[Icendoan]

How do portals occur? Spontaneously, or set in locations. Or are they more like the 'doors' in Sigil?

 

Icen

[Lemernis]

They are like wormholes in time and space through which one teleports to other locations (including other planes) or times. Portals are part of the Weave, the metaphysical energy that pervades the setting's universe, from which magic arises. They are invisivible to the naked eye, and require a Detect magic spell. Some are one-way, lacking a return portal at the other end. Portals can occur naturally or they can be created by mages. Most are durable and will last for centuries, or even millenia. They are however inherently unpredictable in nature.

[Icendoan]

Hah! We could have quite a funny scene where they all Dimension Door in, because suddenly a portal has appear in the middle of a burglary or something. So you have a team of thieves, sneaking out with their ph4t l00t filling their pockets and WHAM! Right by a load of 'official' people and high-ranking Samurai.

 

Hell, they must have a good talker in THAT group.

 

Icen

[Lemernis]

Yeah, I really do like the idea of something fun and whimsical for the ToB quest, as we'd been planning. Something like this portaling around could satisfy that. The wu-jen (sorcerer) from Yoshimo's Yakuza might be more or less be in the mold of Big Trouble in Little China's supporting character 'Egg Shen', the good guy sorcerer who aids Jack Burton's party in their quest. Maybe a little ditzier than Egg Shen, though. Something along those lines, anyway.

 

If riddles or puzzles are involved there could even be a bit of a challenge to it.

 

I expect the following would probably be more trouble than it's worth: But if it's possible we might consider adding areas from the Icewind Dale series (same game engine, right?) for all that portaling around, so that we send them to Kara-Tur. Not sure if any of those IWD areas are good candidates to look potentially Kara-Turan, though. (I only played a little of IWD many years ago, and never really got into it.) This suggestion from a non-coder, so take with the usual grain of salt.

 

Another possible track to follow (although admittedly probably too much modding work):

 

Yoshi's former compatriate from his Yakuza has found one of the four magical scarves made of multicolored silk from Qui that was crafted centuries ago by the then emperor's advisor. Those scarves allow the user to portal to Qui, a celestial plane inhabited by immortal spirits that govern the affairs of all the eastern lands of Kara-Tur. So our party portals through Qui in a quest to return back to Faerun. Part of the whimsy could be to play up the fact that Qui is a vast governmental beaurocracy, with countless celestial officials that oversee (quite literally) everything under the sun.

[Icendoan]

Hah! A celestial plane filled with paper-pushers. I like it!

 

Could you please fill out form A.3 and take to desk 6 please....

 

There was a fun Asterix comic on this sort of thing, where he solved it by making up a form, and getting everyone frantic looking for it, when he asked again, he got the form he wanted.

 

Area Making is a fun idea, but would likely be more trouble than it is worth. Merging the insides of buildings together and filling it with officials, however, is likely doable. I could make an area and copy it over, but the download would be much, much bigger. Also, I won't be able to host it with our attachment system, unless it is fixed, now. And it isn't.

 

Reusing areas isn't what I really want to do, and areas are one heck of a lot of trouble, for fairly little gain.

 

I doubt we could tie in that idea well, unless you do just get teleported there.

 

Having a script on one of the characters would be alright, to teleport you to random areas in the game, in the end back to Amkethran, or wherever the quest triggers.

 

Portals for the Yakuza path would be interesting, but that is your area, if you have any ideas on it.

 

Icen

[lac]

It is possible to miss Tamoko entirely when playing BG1. All you need to do is

keep to the sewers, the undercity, and the Mermaid. You can find out everything

you need there, and do everything you need without encoutering the woman.

I am trying to remember whether she shows up in the undercity then, anyway,

before the final battle, but I think not.

[Lemernis]

You can even miss Tamoko in the Undercity if you go off exploing and take the long way around to the temple of Bhaal. She's placed directly on the most likely route that one will follow to the temple of Bhaal (a straight line from the entrance to the area). But sure enough, it's possible to miss her.

 

Tamoko does appear in Sarevok's party that ambushes Gorion just out of Candlekeep, though the PC can't know who she is at that point. I forget how it's handled in that cut scene. IIRC, Gorion takes out everyone but Sarevok... One of Gorion's spells knocks her unconscious maybe?

 

Anyway, I think we can write it so that it'll work even if the player never encounters Tamoko in BG1.

[Icendoan]

Yes, Gorion casts Sleep on her. Yeah, I think it would be for the best, unless it is one of those variables that gets carried over...

 

Icen

[lac]

I am having problems believing in the Yoshi-from-a-Samarai family. I guess this

is because I see Yoshi as being thoroughly dishonourable, but more out of weakness, than (say) pride, or ambition.

 

We've been assuming a close positive relationship between Yoshimo and Tamoko.Maybe it would be better if he hated her? And was tracking her down for anything but kind reasons?

 

I wonder whether Bhaal left any offspring in Kara-Tur, or in Kozakura. One idea

 

no. he never left any. Or he left one, but this one is *Chinese*. Thus the forces of anti-Chinese sentiment, the Emperor, and who knows whosoever else

believe that Kazokura needs its _*own* Bhaalspawn, to turn into a new Kazokuran deity. Or at least to prevent the Chinese from getting another one. Maybe that was Tamoko's mission in the west.

[Icendoan]

An interesting sentiment about Yoshimo and Tamoko. Gaider's post was vague, and that might be alright, really. I can't see Yoshimo really hating anything or anybody, really. It would be interesting to explore.

 

And no, I don't like the idea of more Bhaalspawn. It has been used far too many times in this game, we don't want to add to it.

 

Tamoko shaming the family by running, Yoshimo also runs, and perhaps he runs because his own personal weakness means he cannot sustain being a Samurai.

 

Tamoko doesn't seem like the sort of person who would be devoted to the government, in the little you see her. Perhaps she simply follows Sarevok, if he goes to Kara-Tur at any time.

 

Icen

[Lemernis]

I am having problems believing in the Yoshi-from-a-Samarai family. I guess this is because I see Yoshi as being thoroughly dishonourable, but more out of weakness, than (say) pride, or ambition.

 

Well, bear in mind in the backstory that I offered, Yoshi is treated miserably in that samurai family. It's not like he's going to have any love or devotion for the samurai tradition out of that experience. Indeed, instead he turns to a life of crime at the age of 16!

 

Again, here's the relevant passage from the source book, Kara-Tur:

 

Younger siblings of the oldest son can find life to be harsh. In difficult times, these children may be forced to accept substandard food and clothing rather than deny the eldest son. Because of their extravagant lifestyles, samurai have an especially difficult time providing for extra children. Many samurai children suffer poverty within the walls of a lavish home. Some are adopted out. Others are turned into the streets to make their own way.

 

Ironically, Yoshimo likely would have been treated far better in a less well-to-do household. From a farmer or merchant household, let's say.

 

We've been assuming a close positive relationship between Yoshimo and Tamoko. Maybe it would be better if he hated her? And was tracking her down for anything but kind reasons?

 

That would be somehow less stereotypical. I like the idea in that sense. But like Icen, I don't see Yoshi as someone driven by hate. A opportunistic survivor who's always looking out for number one? Sure. One who relies on his roguish charm to try to stay in people's good graces when he's caught deceiving them? Definitely. But I don't see a revenge motive driving him.

 

Also, I found myself liking the idea that for Yoshi the 'kernel of a conscience', as I put it earlier, is for him the most genuine connection in this world that he has experienced: the very positive bond he formed in childhood with Tamoko. (In an otherwise cruel existence.)

 

In this mod one of the themes is going to be Yoshimo's internal struggle with his sociopathic side, on the one hand, and a genuine desire to redeem himself and behave honorably, on the other. Our decision to elaborate upon Yoshi's faith in Ilmater, and make it sincere and heartfelt, is based on that basic dramatic conflict, for example.

 

Chasing around the world after Tamoko amounts to nuturing that 'kernel of conscience' within him, keeping it alive and well, even as he behaves as a criminal at times, and hunts down criminals, blurring the lines.

 

Not that all that is going to be spelled out explicitly in the dialogues--it won't be. Much of it will be something that can be inferred. But any way you slice it, that's what's driving things under the surface.

 

I wonder whether Bhaal left any offspring in Kara-Tur, or in Kozakura. One idea

 

no. he never left any. Or he left one, but this one is *Chinese*. Thus the forces of anti-Chinese sentiment, the Emperor, and who knows whosoever else

believe that Kazokura needs its _*own* Bhaalspawn, to turn into a new Kazokuran deity. Or at least to prevent the Chinese from getting another one. Maybe that was Tamoko's mission in the west.

 

That could be fun material to work with. But I agree with Icen that there's too many Bhaalspawn already running around in this tale!

[Icendoan]

Well, a farmer is pretty well off, didn't you say?

 

Icen

[Lemernis]

Yeah, actually at least for Wa (and presumably for Kozakura as well) the source book says farmers are well respected. A class called "No," they are third on the totem pole under Lords and Shi (military class):

 

No. Since agriculture is the backbone of the Wa economy, farmers are the highest class of workers and business-people. Fishermen are also included in this class. Interestingly, farmers are often less affluent than the merchant and artisan classes below them. However, their higher status assures them of access to military protection and preferential treatment in certain legal matters. Wealthy farmers have the highest status within this class, and day laborers have the lowest.

[Icendoan]

So, until lac gets back to us on this, I assume we go with our previous idea?

 

Icen

[Lemernis]

Yeah it's been a fruitful brainstorming session, I think. The longer I sit with it, I find that I'm pretty satisfied with the Tamoko plotline that I've put forth. I was initially concerned that having Tamoko be Yoshi's sister might feel forced. But actually I now think it goes some way toward shoring up the poorly designed Bioware plot. For example, the tie-in we've created from this with Irenicus recruiting Yoshi seems to work well. And it explains how Irenicus came to take notice of the PC in the first place.

 

As far as Irenicus motives, I think it's sufficient just to have him watching Sarevok first as the most promising candidate to steal a semi-divine soul from. Sarevok's obviously more powerful than the PC at that point.

 

I'll leave out my speculations about Bhaalspawn possibly taking a sibling's power when one kills another. It's not needed.

 

We have time to mull it over some more, make refinements, etc. But at this point it feels like a pretty good direction to follow. Do you agree? Anything you'd want to change?