I'm making a new Druid spell . . .

[SixOfSpades]

Long story short, I'm weakening Insect Plague & Creeping Doom, but making it up to Druids by giving them a new spell.

 

Bramble, Level 6, is just like Entangle except that instead of just immobilizing its victim(s), it also adds a small amount of Piercing and (upon a failed Save) Poison damage.

 

The real question: How do we avoid stepping on each others' toes? If Divine Remix is installed first, will my Kitpack add Bramble to all Druids, including those like the Oozemaster who shouldn't have it? If my Kitpack is installed first, what is DR's command of the spell spheres going to do to my Hivemaster's spell access?

[Demivrgvs]

I'd be interested too in this, as I'd like to make SR and DR fully compatible.

 

May I know how you are going to "nerf" Insect Plague and Creeping Doom?

[SixOfSpades]

I'm going to make them more like Summon Insects: They allow a Save to avoid the effects, and more importantly they impose only 50% Spellcasting Failure. Creeping Doom is given twice its current duration. I've yet to decide on more exact specifics--I may end up tweaking Summon Insects as well, if indeed it does cause THAC0 and AC penalties that the more powerful Insect spells do not.

[Azazello]

Bramble, Level 6, is just like Entangle except that instead of just immobilizing its victim(s), it also adds a small amount of Piercing and (upon a failed Save) Poison damage.

Doesn't IwD have a similar spell, minus the poison? And it's a Druid spell. I can't remember the name of it.

[Demivrgvs]

I'm going to make them more like Summon Insects: They allow a Save to avoid the effects,...

I've done the same in SR.

 

and more importantly they impose only 50% Spellcasting Failure.

That may cause some issues with the AI, as it is impossible for it to detect a spell failure rate which isn't 100%. DavidW or aVENGER can probably explain it better than me.

 

I may end up tweaking Summon Insects as well, if indeed it does cause THAC0 and AC penalties that the more powerful Insect spells do not.

3rd level version has the AC/THAC0 penalties (a sort of shaken effect), 5th and 7th level versions have a fear effect instead. Too bad the engine doen't allow the different versions of fear (shaken, frightened, and panicked).

 

Doesn't IwD have a similar spell, minus the poison? And it's a Druid spell. I can't remember the name of it.

You're probably thinking about Spike Growth, it doesn't cause entanglement though, only damage.

[SixOfSpades]

I'm going to make them more like Summon Insects: They allow a Save to avoid the effects,...

I've done the same in SR.

Okay, I'll trot over to there & see what you've done. Might as well be consistent.

 

That may cause some issues with the AI, as it is impossible for it to detect a spell failure rate which isn't 100%. DavidW or aVENGER can probably explain it better than me.

Then that's an unfortunate shortcoming of the AI, especially as Spell Failure rates of less than 100% were present in the original game (in fact, the entire Wizard Slayer kit was built on them).

 

3rd level version has the AC/THAC0 penalties (a sort of shaken effect), 5th and 7th level versions have a fear effect instead. Too bad the engine doen't allow the different versions of fear (shaken, frightened, and panicked).

Yeah. I think I'll tweak the spells as something like the following:

Level 3: Save vs. Breath with +1 penalty to avoid, 1hp/3sec damage, 33% Spell Failure, Save vs. Spell or Fear for 1 round, total duration 6 rounds.

Level 5: Save vs. Breath with +3 penalty to avoid, 1hp/2sec damage, 50% Spell Failure, Save vs. Spell or Fear for 6 rounds, +1 penalties to THAC0 & AC, total duration 6 rounds.

Level 7: Save vs. Breath with +5 penalty to avoid, 1 hp/sec damage, 66% Spell Failure, Save vs. Spell with +3 penalty each round or Fear for 1 round, +2 penalties to THAC0 & AC, total duration 6 rounds.

 

Then there are 2 new innate abilities given only to Hivemasters, the kit I'm doing next (unless I redo the Inquisitor first):

Swarm: Single target, no Save to avoid, 1 hp/2 sec damage, 75% Spell Failure, Save vs. Spell or Fear for 6 rounds (automatic Fear for the 1st round), Save vs. Death each round or take 1 Poison damage/round for next 2 rounds, +2 penalties to THAC0 & AC, total duration 6 rounds.

Greater Swarm (HLA): Multiple targets, no Save to avoid, 1hp/sec damage, 100% Spell Failure, Save vs. Spell with +1 penalty each round or Fear for 1 round (automatic Fear in 1st round), Save vs. Death with +2 penalty each round or take 2 Poison damage/round for next 2 rounds, +4 penalty to THAC0, +2 penalty to AC, total duration 6 rounds.

 

Of course, this is before I've even looked at what you've got in SR, and I haven't finalized any of these spells anyway.

 

Doesn't IwD have a similar spell, minus the poison? And it's a Druid spell. I can't remember the name of it.

You're probably thinking about Spike Growth, it doesn't cause entanglement though, only damage.

Heh. Okay, now you've made me think about creating a new Wizard spell, "Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion."

[Demivrgvs]

Then that's an unfortunate shortcoming of the AI, especially as Spell Failure rates of less than 100% were present in the original game (in fact, the entire Wizard Slayer kit was built on them).

Well, if you're ok with mages wasting spells because of spell failure values between 50-90% there shouldn't be problems with vanilla's AI, it will continue to cast spells regardless of spell failure.

The latest Detectable Spells shipped with RR and SCS instead allow to detect the different "insect spells", but the AI will assume a 100% spell failure rate (as per vanilla's spells) and won't cast spells even with a 50% or 66% spell failure rate.

 

A desired behaviour may be:

- under 50% spell failure rate continue to cast spells

- above 50% spell failure rate stop casting spells (or try to cast only dispel and similar things to get rid of the failure rate itself)

But I don't know if even the current RR and SCS scripts do this.

 

As I said before, the two authors of those wonderful mods know best.

 

I would have a lot to say about "insect spells", and you actually got me to think about further refine them, but this probably isn't the right topic.

[SixOfSpades]

Well, if you're ok with mages wasting spells because of spell failure values between 50-90% there shouldn't be problems with vanilla's AI, it will continue to cast spells regardless of spell failure.

Well, I have no real problem with Mages continuing to cast spells, because what else are they going to do? Run up & try to hit somebody?

 

But yeah, ideally a caster who knows he's under a good chance of Spell Failure should try to run away until it's over, but like you said, you can't enforce a state of "Morale Failure: Running" over a "Panic" or "Berserk," and the effect of "Retreat from" seems to be inoperable as well. So maybe instead of trying to Dispel the Spell Failure (Dispel will work against the Insect spells, but not against a Wizard Slayer's abilities), they should attempt Invisibility/Sanctuary/Dimension Door instead. The level of the spellcaster could be used to determine the odds that they'd have an Invisibility potion in their back pocket.

 

Do you mean to say that the current AI cannot determine the exact % of Spell Failure, or only that they do not do so?

 

I would have a lot to say about "insect spells", and you actually got me to think about further refine them, but this probably isn't the right topic.

And why not? Sure, I was hoping to discuss actual compatibility with Andyr or somebody, but this seems to be mostly you & me talking, here.

[Demivrgvs]

Do you mean to say that the current AI cannot determine the exact % of Spell Failure, or only that they do not do so?

It cannot. The latest DS use "modify proficiencies" attached to the spells to set a sort of "insect spell" flag (with values 1, 2 or 3) to determine if the characters are affected by them, and by which one.

 

And why not? Sure, I was hoping to discuss actual compatibility with Andyr or somebody, but this seems to be mostly you & me talking, here.

Andyr didn't logged in since May, and I don't know how much DR is currently "followed" by its authors.

 

I thought that another topic would be better just hoping that sooner or later someone with the right knowledge will pass by and reply to the topic's main question: how to adapt new spells to be compatible with DR.

 

If you want to discuss spells you're always welcome at Spell Revisions' forum.

[erik]

Huh? I'm pretty sure this snippet from SCSII ease-of-use party ai:

 

CheckStatGT(Myself,0,SPELLFAILUREMAGE)

 

... is checking for percentage mage spell failure, isn't it?

 

And SixOfSpades, is it this tutorial you're looking for?

[Icendoan]

I think that needs Detectable Stats.

 

Icen

[erik]

Icen:

 

51 SPELLFAILUREMAGE

52 SPELLFAILUREPRIEST

 

...is defined in stats.ids in a totally unmodded SoA install, so I think not.

 

I obviously haven't tested if it actually works , but it certainly looks promising.

[Demivrgvs]

Huh? I'm pretty sure this snippet from SCSII ease-of-use party ai:

 

CheckStatGT(Myself,0,SPELLFAILUREMAGE)

 

... is checking for percentage mage spell failure, isn't it?

 

I obviously haven't tested if it actually works , but it certainly looks promising.

Yeah, I don't know to what extend it's used by SCS, not to mention we're not even sure it works. It would be good though.

 

Still, "insect spells" aren't detected this way by SCS, but with the method aforementioned.

[SixOfSpades]

And SixOfSpades, is it this tutorial you're looking for?

Complex crunchy goodness. I know I have something of a pattern of "new content takes precedence over elegance/compatibility," but I'll try to work this in with the Hivemaster. Happily, most of my kits are compatible already: The Archer and Mystic Marksman should have the same spell access as default Rangers & Paladins (respectively), so I'm fine with whatever DR does to them, and Inquisitors & Hunters of the Occult get no spells at all. There may be some trouble with the Martyr, though. I'll look into it.