accessing the bandit camp

[Lemernis]

I'm considering trying my hand at a simple mod that will add a few tweaks to the Black Talon/Chill alliance. I want to first ask some general knowledge questions regarding how the player can access the bandit camp.

 

There are three named bandits who provide the opportunity to join with the bandits in order to gain access to the bandit camp: Teven, Raiken, and Deke. All three of these bandits don't appear until after completion of Chapter 2. But Deke, located in Coast Way AR2800, is overlooked by most players. In fact near as I can tell, most are surprised to learn he even exists.

 

Most players don't feel the occasion to return to the Coast Way map after completing the Nashkel mines (unless they're taking Kagain's quest at that point). The game's plotline doesn't clearly point players there. Investigation of the problems at the Nashkel mines uncovers Mulahey, who in turn points us to Tranzig, and Tranzig yields the location of the bandit camp, i.e., it then gets added to the map. Of course this is only if you choose the dialogue options that lead to Tranzig spilling the beans. Some of the dialogue nodes instead just lead to a fight. And when Tranzig does not disclose his relationship with Tazok, am I remembering correctly that the Bandit Camp map then also does not get added to the worldmap? That is to say, in that conversation does the Bandit Camp area get added if-and-only-if Tranzig confesses that he is working for Tazok?

 

Also, I can't recall if you can then enter the Bandit Camp after Tranzig has revealed the Bandit Camp location. Usually when an area gets added to your worldmap you gain access. But is the bandit camp an exception to that rule?

 

As long as I can remember, I've always joined up with the bandits to get into the camp. Again, I don't remember what happens if you enter the camp without having joined them... But it's a secret camp.* And you're not a bandit. So it stands to reason that you'd be attacked and have to fight your way through to the mob boss tent. (And if you enter the camp without joining the bandits, I'm not sure how the dialogue with the bosses in the big tent goes. But they seem to be expecting you even when you joined with the bandits.)

 

Officer Vai and Elminster both point you toward bandits hiding in the Wood of Sharp Teeth, though I cannot recall if they specifically refer to Larswood and Pelvdale, or just to investigate the bandit activity plauging the Trade Way in general. IIRC Vai asks you to clear the "entire area" of bandits.

 

The Wood of Sharp Teeth (Larswood and Pelvdale) is teaming with bandits, but that is where they're hiding in between raids. In order for them to rob anything they have to be where the merchant caravans are--and that is the Trade Way. So it does actually makes more a little more sense to find your way into the bandit camp via Deke than Teven or Raiken in Larswood and Pelvdale, respectively.

 

The game's dialogues that bridge Chapter 2 to Chapter 3 aren't very clear. Elminster, Vai, and any other relevant NPCs probably should have emphasized the importance of the Trade Way a little more with respect to the bandits. So I might try to make a little mini-mod that addresses this, perhaps offers some minor enhancements with respect to the bandit activity, etc.

 

 

 

* Tranzig explains that its location is constantly being moved around.

[Jarno Mikkola]

There are three named bandits who provide the opportunity to join with the bandits in order to gain access to the bandit camp: Teven, Raiken, and Deke. All three of these bandits don't appear until after completion of Chapter 2. But Deke, located in Coast Way AR2800, is overlooked by most players. In fact near as I can tell, most are surprised to learn he even exists.

Who, ah, I have never met him...

 

Most players don't feel the occasion to return to the Coast Way map after completing the Nashkel mines (unless they're taking Kagain's quest at that point). The game's plotline doesn't clearly point players there. Investigation of the problems at the Nashkel mines uncovers Mulahey, who in turn points us to Tranzig, and Tranzig yields the location of the bandit camp, i.e., it then gets added to the map.

 

I can't recall if you can then enter the area. Usually when an area gets added to your worldmap you gain access. But is the bandit camp an exception to that rule?

Well, there is four ways to get access to an area from the rest of the map;

1) Being there(so you are teleported there or something).

2) You go to an edge of already accessed map and you "find" the area, you can find almost all the BG1 areas, except the Cloakwoods mines, The Bandit Camp, and the city of BG, as the bridge is not crossable until after the Cloakwood mines.

3) You find an item that "reveals" you the area like a document. To "find" a revealed area, you need to go to an area next to it, and find it with the above option.

4) A dialog "reveals" you that you find the area.

 

Now, the use of these vary when it comes to the base packages of BG1, BGTutu and BGT, and BGT Tweak pack. As for example the BG1, one way gained the access to the Bandit Camp is by finding a document from Tranzigs loot, or by talking to him about it. Then you go to the area next to it and travel there from the edge of one of the maps.

In the latest BGT, you have to first get the Tranzigs notes and talk to one of the bandits to reveal the the Bandit Camp location, or go with them to the Bandit Camp...

 

The BGT Tweakpack also give the ability to access the first part or all of the Cloakwood except the mine, if you install the component, but the rest of the areas can be accessed only after the Bandit Camps documents/talks/chapter change is over.

[devSin]

Actually, Deke is a bit of a buzzkill because he then prevents Teven (in the henge forest) or Raiken (in the spider swamp) from spawning (you never get to "enlist" with the bandits if Deke points out the location).

 

Killing Tranzig is sufficient to open up the Bandit Camp (this is done in the area script), but it's also possible to run this when he surrenders (you have to talk to him and choose the right options). Depending how you question him, he will state that he meets Tazok at "either Peldvale or Larswood." Elminster and Vai only give vague hints at what to do next IIRC and will not reveal the Bandit Camp on the map.

 

If you elect not to join the bandits, you need to travel to an adjacent area before you can travel to the Bandit Camp, but it's immediately available after defeating Tranzig, talking to Deke, or convincing Teven or Raiken to allow you to join.

[Lemernis]

Thanks Jarno. I would definitely want to make this compatible with Tutu, BGT, and BG2 Tweak Pack.

 

Okay, just to make sure I understand

 

- Once the Bandit Camp area is added to the map, you can only access it from an adjacent area?

 

- Even if you kill Tranzig without him talking about the Bandit Camp, he still has a document (either on his person or in the inn room's desk?) that also adds the Bandit Camp area to the worldmap?

 

- In BGT are you required to join with the bandits to gain access to their camp? Or can you try a direct frontal approach once the area is added to the worldmap?

 

- Once the Bandit Camp area is added to the worldmap, if you don't join up with the bandits will the party be attacked when they enter the camp? (Although I guess they could enter unmolested via invisibility, for example).

[Lemernis]

Actually, Deke is a bit of a buzzkill because he then prevents Teven (in the henge forest) or Raiken (in the spider swamp) from spawning (you never get to "enlist" with the bandits if Deke points out the location).

 

Ah! Thanks. I have never used Deke, incidentally. Hmm.

 

I have to think about what might be done to improve Deke's function.

 

Killing Tranzig is sufficient to open up the Bandit Camp (this is done in the area script), but it's also possible to run this when he surrenders (you have to talk to him and choose the right options). Depending how you question him, he will state that he meets Tazok at "either Peldvale or Larswood."

 

Is there any scenario under which conversation with Tranzig will not result in the Bandit Camp area being added to the worldmap?

 

Elminster and Vai only give vague hints at what to do next IIRC and will not reveal the Bandit Camp on the map.

 

Right, they just direct the player to investigate the increased bandit raid problem. One of the tweaks I'm considering is pointing the player a little more clearly toward the Trade Way and possibly using Deke a little more creatively.

 

If you elect not to join the bandits, you need to travel to an adjacent area before you can travel to the Bandit Camp, but it's immediately available after defeating Tranzig, talking to Deke, or convincing Teven or Raiken to allow you to join.

 

Okay, so Tranzig and Deke both add the Bandit Camp area to the worldmap. But unless you take the 'back door' route into the camp by joining Teven or Raiken you'll then have to use the 'front door' and either fight your way through the camp, or stealth your way to the mob boss tent. Do I have that right?

[Jarno Mikkola]

- Once the Bandit Camp area is added to the map, you can only access it from an adjacent area?

Yes, or you can join of course with the bandits from either area.

 

- Even if you kill Tranzig without him talking about the Bandit Camp, he still has a document (either on his person or in the inn room's desk?) that also adds the Bandit Camp area to the worldmap?

I don't remember, but I don't think he could be killed without the map update.

 

- In BGT are you required to join with the bandits to gain access to their camp? Or can you try a direct frontal approach once the area is added to the worldmap?

You can do either, but in the latest you have to talk to one of the bandit groups, so there is no stealth approach thought the Larswood or Peldvale, without killing the bandits as you don't know where the camp exactly is.

 

- Once the Bandit Camp area is added to the worldmap, if you don't join up with the bandits will the party be attacked when they enter the camp? Although I guess they could enter unmolested via invisibility, for example.

Exactly.

[devSin]

Ah! Thanks. I have never used Deke, incidentally. Hmm.

Yeah, basically, if you talked to Deke after killing the supporting bandits (he surrenders) and convince him to tell you the location of the Bandit Camp, he sets "TazokSays" to 1, which causes Teven and Raiken to EscapeArea() and prevents you from being able to join the bandits.

 

Is there any scenario under which conversation with Tranzig will not result in the Bandit Camp area being added to the worldmap?

Yes. If he surrenders, you tell him to spill his guts, and then just tell him to leave, the area won't get revealed. This is more a bug than a legitimate path, though.

 

Tranzig has a letter, but it's not necessary for revealing the Bandit Camp (simply killing him reveals the area).

 

Okay, so Tranzig and Deke both add the Bandit Camp area to the worldmap. But unless you take the 'back door' route into the camp by joining Teven or Raiken you'll then have to use the 'front door' and either fight your way through the camp, or stealth your way to the mob boss tent. Do I have that right?

As far as I'm aware, this is correct. If you haven't joined (through either Teven or Raiken), then the bandits will be hostile and the Bandit Camp becomes an area that you just have to fight or sneak through. The guards who initiate dialogue normally still do when they're hostile, which leads to some dumb options for a couple of them.

[Lemernis]

Here's something I posted at another site, seeking feedback so for convenience sake I'll just repost the entire thing here. Please let me know what you think:

 

 

 

I think one of BG's weaker points is that it can be somewhat confusing for a first time player what to do next after completing the Nashkel mines quest.

 

It's worth noting that the end of Chapter 2 also happens to be a great time to head off into the countryside and sidequest. So the lack of clarity in the storyline does serve that purpose. Whether this was intended by Bioware, I cannot say. But I think the opportunity to sidequest is a good thing to utilize in shoring up the storyline. I feel it would be a stronger gameplay experience to actually point the player in the direction of exploring the entire countryside to gather info.

 

Thus I'm considering trying my hand at making a mod that, upon completion of the Nashkel mines quest, 1) actively sends the player to explore the entire Sword Coast region, and 2) along the way more clearly points the player toward investigation of bandit activity. The mod would do this via two new questgivers and by peppering the landscape with new NPCs who have conversations that, subtley but cumulatively, more strongly emphasize the impact of the unrelenting (and increasing) bandit raids along the Trade Way.

 

Here's some initial brainstorming:

 

Investigate rumors of Zhent involvement

 

The mod would highlight the Iron Thone's misdirection of spreading rumors that the Zhentarim are behind the Sword Coast's woes.

 

In so doing the mod would alter Tranzig's role:

 

Changes to Tranzig

 

First, Tranzig will no longer reveal the bandit camp's location, no matter what. And simply killing Tranzig would no longer automatically make the Bandit Camp area appear on the worldmap.

 

Second, Tranzig offers an incredibly tough fight. He would in fact be a fearsome high level mage, just as he warns.

 

The letter in Tranzig's possession points the player toward two new NPCs. Both questgivers are referenced in the letter. And both perform the same function of sending the PC exploring and trying to gather information about the bandit raids along the Trade Way.

 

Two new questgivers

 

I would offer two such questgivers for the sake of a PC who would shun any sort of relationship with an evil organization, eg, a paladin. It's up the the player if he wants to visit just one or both of these questgivers. But having two questgivers who offer the same quest serves to reinforce the importance of solving the mystery of why the Black Talon and Chill alliance is crippling trade in the region by virtually shutting down commerce along the Trade Way.

 

The good aligned questgiver is a representative of a Baldur's Gate merchant consortium who is visiting Beregost and is concerned about the devastating effect of the bandit raids upon trade for the entire Sword Coast. He is also a Harper, although the only clear indication of this is that he will be wearing his pin.

 

If Jaheira is in the party she will strongly advise the party take his quest. If Xzar is in the party he will encourage this also, since this is his job as well (it's just that he is working for the Zhents rather than the Harpers). Jaheira will have an interjection that clues the questgiver in as to the party's general progress thus far. But she will be quite subtle about it. She will not openly identify herself as a Harper. And neither will the questgiver.

 

The evil questgiver is a Zhent agent who, himself, has been charged with the task of figuring out what's going on. He will also be found in Beregost. The Zhent is open about who he is and what he wants. And he will offer a substantial monetary reward.

 

Now, if Xzar and Monty are in the party, then it would be fun to play with the fact that those two party members also are spying for the Zhents--but as spies they must stay under cover. It makes for a scenario where Xzar feels compelled to give report to this new NPC questgiver between the lines, essentially. This could be amusing given Xzar's 'eccentricities'. Xzar is so off-the-wall in his attempt to be cryptic that the questgiver gets frustrated, etc.

 

And if Jaheira and Xzar are both in the party then I think it might actually be fun to use that as well. Jaehira will of course figure out that Xzar and Monty are Zhents, though she only hints at it in new dialgoues between Jaheira and Xzar. But the already coded antagonstic banters between Xzar and Jaheira (which many players never see) are accelerated at a fierce pace, resulting in their fight to the death within around a week or so.

 

Interrogate Deke

 

It would be fun if Deke is used a little more creatively. Perhaps instead of just blurting out the bandit camp location he can be captured and interrogated. To make it more of a challenge, extracting the information from him could require a combination of various ingredients. (I'll add the caveat that I either have to learn how to script the following or get help with it, so forgive me if these ambitions are either impossible by virtue of the game engine, or just too difficult to attempt):

 

One path to getting Deke to crack could be that the interrogator has, let's say, 20+ Cha, and the player picks the just the right responses from among the various dialogue nodes.

 

I'm not sure the following is even scriptable, but another successful avenue might be to cast a certain combination of spells upon Deke. There might be, say, three specific spell combinations that could accomplish this. The spell combos would presumably involve both fear and enchantment/mind control. (And somewhere in one of these spell combos I'd like to see Friends used, since the spell description states it has precisely that purpose.)

 

And perhaps depending on who is chosen among the party to be the interrogator, the results would vary. Maybe kitten-with-whip Safana manages to seduce the information out of him. Perhaps Viconia strikes fear into Deke simply by virtue of lowering her hood or removing her helmet and revealing that she is a drow--and a drow priestess who threatens to cast her dark spells on him. Shar-Teel gives Deke the choice of either giving up the information or dualing to the death with him. If Minsc is the interrogator, Deke cracks wise about Boo; Minsc goes aggro on him; this would scare the information out of him, however Minsc will not be controlable and may well kill Deke before he can spill the location of the bandit camp (timer set so that only rarely will Deke survive long enough). Etc. I wouldn't do this for every NPC, just a handful of them.

 

Joining the bandits

 

I don't see the mod changing anything for Teven and Raiken. It could, I suppose, but I don't think it needs to.

 

Black Talon/Chill

 

Maybe something done to expand the role of the Black Talon/Chill alliance. Not yet sure how... except to say it would probably be humorous. Eg, I can imagine some racial tension between the human Black Talons and the monster race Chill.

 

More commoners complaining about dire effects of bandit raids along the Trade Way

 

More farmers, merchants, peasants, etc., who complain about how tough times are economically due to the bandits unrelenting raids upon merchrant caravans.

 

Compatibility

 

I would like this mod to be compatible with both EasyTutu and BGT. Hard Times, which appears to be a perfect companion mod, is available only via EasyTutu.

[Amgot]

Sounds very good