SR V3

[Mike1072]

Dispel Magic (again)

Posts moved from the "Greater Malison" thread to this one.

Sorry to sidetrack a little, but, apparently player's have an impossible time dispelling effects due to the higher levels! Just wondering, is this fix going to be part of SR, fixpack, or completely separate?

That would require just an adjustment to some Extension Headers, so that you'd only need to be (for example) Level 8 in order to cast Dispel/Remove Magic at Level 12--while keeping your regular casting level for all other spells.

 

Whether or not we actually do this is an open question. I'd prefer to keep the spells as-is, as the problem lies with BioWare's seemingly building all enemy Mages on the same 3 or 4 templates, almost all of whom are Level 18.

Dispel fix

It'll be a separate component in SR and SCS.

So . . . are we actually changing the casting level of Dispel/Remove at all, even as an optional component of SR? If so, what sort of modifier should we put on there? I do feel that BioWare throws too many ToB-level Mages & Liches at you while you're still plodding through mid-level SoA, but I don't really see that as justification to buff up Dispel--particularly as you can close a big chunk of the "level gap" by simply casting Dispel with your Cleric instead of your Mage.

AFAIK, the only change SR will be incorporating in v3 is Taimon's fix to actually make the spell work like it says it does.

[SixOfSpades]

AFAIK, the only change SR will be incorporating in v3 is Taimon's fix to actually make the spell work like it says it does.

Dayum. Color me impressed. You just never know where he's going to strike next, do you? Maybe we should compile a list of all the most-requested things that "couldn't" be done because they're "hardcoded."

 

Okay, I shall now go party with Inquisitors. (They throw lousy parties, incidentally.)

[Guest guest]

AFAIK, the only change SR will be incorporating in v3 is Taimon's fix to actually make the spell work like it says it does.

Dayum. Color me impressed. You just never know where he's going to strike next, do you? Maybe we should compile a list of all the most-requested things that "couldn't" be done because they're "hardcoded."

 

Okay, I shall now go party with Inquisitors. (They throw lousy parties, incidentally.)

 

Yeah, that's what I meant by impossible, literally that. Sorry, i figured people would know I was referring to the discovery/fix of the problem by Taimon. I wasn't just using the word to exaggerate things!

[Guest guest]

Hey, is there any sort of timeframe for when V3 will be released? I almost made a new topic to ask about it, but don't want to be an annoyance, and so hope you don't mind me posting this here, even though it seems to mostly be about discussion for spells themselves.

 

I'm just waiting to start a new tutu game and would love to have this for it.

 

Thank you.

[SixOfSpades]

Fireshields

They're the wrong color. Ideally, they should be color-coded in the same pattern that Dragons are, meaning that Fireshield:Blue should deal Electrical damage, not Cold. Now, I saw the other day that adding new animations is highly iffy (there's a finite number of slots for them?), so this may or may not be possible, but I'd like to suggest it anyway. The two Fireshield spells are now only one, and when you cast it you get a menu of what color (element) you'd like it to be.

Red = Fire, Green = Poison, Blue = Electricity, White = Cold, Brown = Acid.

 

This would require copying the 2 Fireshield animations and changing the colors in each frame, but that's straightforward enough, and also notifying jcompton of this change so that he can make Kelsey's Cloak follow the pattern as well.

[Demivrgvs]

Hey, is there any sort of timeframe for when V3 will be released? I almost made a new topic to ask about it, but don't want to be an annoyance, and so hope you don't mind me posting this here, even though it seems to mostly be about discussion for spells themselves.

 

I'm just waiting to start a new tutu game and would love to have this for it.

 

Thank you.

I can tell you what's left to do, two things: what's discussed here, and what's discussed here. After that I consider V3 closed. Once we reach a consensus it should actually take me little time to implement the changes.

 

 

Fireshields

They're the wrong color. Ideally, they should be color-coded in the same pattern that Dragons are, meaning that Fireshield:Blue should deal Electrical damage, not Cold. Now, I saw the other day that adding new animations is highly iffy (there's a finite number of slots for them?), so this may or may not be possible, but I'd like to suggest it anyway. The two Fireshield spells are now only one, and when you cast it you get a menu of what color (element) you'd like it to be.

Red = Fire, Green = Poison, Blue = Electricity, White = Cold, Brown = Acid.

 

This would require copying the 2 Fireshield animations and changing the colors in each frame, but that's straightforward enough, and also notifying jcompton of this change so that he can make Kelsey's Cloak follow the pattern as well.

Well, I personally don't like too much the idea of a Fire Shield dealing poison/electrical/acid damage the real issue is another, making spells use the 2da system used by Spell Immunity sucks. I would have liked to use it for Chromatic Orb (to let players decide the color as per PnP), but making a spell work like this prevents it from being used in sequencers/contingencies, and potentially screws the AI which may rely on them.

[SixOfSpades]

Well, I personally don't like too much the idea of a Fire Shield dealing poison/electrical/acid damage . . .

Well, it makes just as much sense as as a fire being cold . . . although, to be frank, it's kind of silly for it to cause Poison damage, as it doesn't penetrate the skin--but then, neither does Green Dragon Breath. I almost considered a FireShield:Black that had a chance to Level Drain the attacker, but even if we made the % chance so low that it wouldn't exactly be overpowered, the game still wouldn't have any defense against it.

 

making spells use the 2da system used by Spell Immunity sucks.

I disagree, I think in plenty of cases it adds versatility, and in this case at least frees up space for a new 4th-level spell, if anyone should want to create one. True, it prevents the spell being placed in a Contingency, but I don't think FireShield sounds a likely spell to be put in a Contingency anyway. (Then again, I could be wrong, I never use Sequencers or Contingencies myself.) The AI problem is easily dealt with simply by not changing the filenames of FS:Red and FS:Blue (renamed to White).

[Kalindor]

I almost considered a FireShield:Black that had a chance to Level Drain the attacker, but even if we made the % chance so low that it wouldn't exactly be overpowered, the game still wouldn't have any defense against it.

 

This "Fire Shield: Black" would be an excellent and creative idea for a higher-level spell protection. Attackers are drained one experience level and suffer 2D6 points of magical damage.

 

I don't think FireShield sounds a likely spell to be put in a Contingency anyway.

 

I put Fire Shield in chain contingency occasionally. It depends on the situation. The resistances they confer are the main reason and the damage to melee attackers is just gravy. Anyway, removing the option to have it in a contingency is not amusing.

[Demivrgvs]

making spells use the 2da system used by Spell Immunity sucks.

I disagree, I think in plenty of cases it adds versatility, and in this case at least frees up space for a new 4th-level spell, if anyone should want to create one. True, it prevents the spell being placed in a Contingency, but I don't think FireShield sounds a likely spell to be put in a Contingency anyway. (Then again, I could be wrong, I never use Sequencers or Contingencies myself.) The AI problem is easily dealt with simply by not changing the filenames of FS:Red and FS:Blue (renamed to White).

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying I wouldn't like the versatility. As I said, I thought about using this system for Chromatic Orb because it would make it extremly more interesting (and the same would be true for the two Fire Shields, which indeed are a single spell in PnP), but I can't consider the above mentioned issues as trivial as you say. And dealing with the AI problem wouldn't be flawless because I can't prevent a pre-existing spell from appearing in the spell selection screen at character creation or sorcerer lvl up, and it wouldn't "free" a 4th level spell slot.

[Guest guest]

Will all these changes you're making still work well for vanilla AI mages and priests and casters in general? I get the feeling a lot of this stuff is aimed at SCS compatibility, but while I like the other parts of SCS, the mages make my game lag so I don't use that part of SCS too much.

 

So, I still want your spells but will the enemies (casters) be easier now because they won't "know" the changes, or will it all be ok? I'm thinking in particular about changes to things like PfMW, the antimagic system and such. It seems SCS will take at least some of these into account, but there's no one to help the poor vanilla casters understand what's going on...

[DavidW]

Will all these changes you're making still work well for vanilla AI mages and priests and casters in general? I get the feeling a lot of this stuff is aimed at SCS compatibility, but while I like the other parts of SCS, the mages make my game lag so I don't use that part of SCS too much.

 

So, I still want your spells but will the enemies (casters) be easier now because they won't "know" the changes, or will it all be ok? I'm thinking in particular about changes to things like PfMW, the antimagic system and such. It seems SCS will take at least some of these into account, but there's no one to help the poor vanilla casters understand what's going on...

 

The vanilla casters, bless them, are sufficiently stupid that all this will just roll over them. They'll carry on using their spells just as well, or badly, as before.

[SixOfSpades]

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying I wouldn't like the versatility . . . but I can't consider the above mentioned issues as trivial as you say. And dealing with the AI problem wouldn't be flawless because I can't prevent a pre-existing spell from appearing in the spell selection screen at character creation or sorcerer lvl up, and it wouldn't "free" a 4th level spell slot.

True, we would actually have to create a new 4th-level spell to fill its place, and yeah, we'd have to update all AIs with the new names. So there goes that plan. I'm not too familiar with how one keeps a Wizard spell restricted from the Character Creation and Sorcerer Level-up screens.

 

On a roughly related note, are you planning to make any changes to Splautop.2da (The "Pick For Me" spell list)?

 

The vanilla casters, bless them, are sufficiently stupid that all this will just roll over them. They'll carry on using their spells just as well, or badly, as before.

Out of curiosity, what sort of criteria did you use in determining who would & wouldn't get smarter from SCS(II)?

[DavidW]

The vanilla casters, bless them, are sufficiently stupid that all this will just roll over them. They'll carry on using their spells just as well, or badly, as before.

Out of curiosity, what sort of criteria did you use in determining who would & wouldn't get smarter from SCS(II)?

 

Theoretically, I tried to make everything about the "right" level of intelligence.

 

In practice, the scripting language is so restrictive that this translates to "as intelligent as possible" for anything brighter than a dog. I don't think any human in SCSII, for instance, does something that couldn't be done by someone with Intelligence=9 and a minimal combat education.

[DarkWon]

......True, it prevents the spell being placed in a Contingency, but I don't think FireShield sounds a likely spell to be put in a Contingency anyway. (Then again, I could be wrong, I never use Sequencers or Contingencies myself.).........

 

Er...FS:Red and FS:Blue are both in my Sequencer from mid SoA all the way too end ToB! For a Ftr/Mage its a great combo (i think Spell Rev. means both shields combined does 2d6 +20 damage every time you are hit)

 

If there were different fire shields I would make a sequencer with 3. Make a FS:Black! negative energy damage, and protection from level drain or + to save vs. death?

[amanasleep]

......True, it prevents the spell being placed in a Contingency, but I don't think FireShield sounds a likely spell to be put in a Contingency anyway. (Then again, I could be wrong, I never use Sequencers or Contingencies myself.).........

 

Er...FS:Red and FS:Blue are both in my Sequencer from mid SoA all the way too end ToB! For a Ftr/Mage its a great combo (i think Spell Rev. means both shields combined does 2d6 +20 damage every time you are hit)

 

If there were different fire shields I would make a sequencer with 3. Make a FS:Black! negative energy damage, and protection from level drain or + to save vs. death?

 

Fire Shields are very effective even in vanilla. They do guaranteed damage to every attacker with no effort, to hit roll, etc. Even 2d8+4 means the enemy takes 13 damage on average. The SR version is almost OP.

 

I hate when the AI uses them. Taking 130 damage to cut through a Stone Skins is not fun.

 

Cleric/Mage using 2 Fire Shields plus Aura of Flaming Vengeance is really nasty. Even Jaheira using AoFV and Staff of Fire is pretty awesome.