Revised Stores

[Demivrgvs]

Alright, here is something I'd wish to hear an opinion on, it partially concerns Gate Revision as well - do we need a jeweler type of merchant, selling a handful of precious gems?

Well, it may be interesting even without "Gate Revision", which is not going to be released anytime soon imo. Anyway if it requires too much work don't bother, we can always improve the component with further releases, as both IR and SR will surely have a v4.

[Demivrgvs]

Ardanis I'm looking at your beta and I'm terrorized by the sheer size of it. I'm not sure I can handle to check all stores and test them before v3 release (actually I'm almost sure I won't), especially because I've noticed a lot of small things to do and a lot of possible suggestions.

 

Misc comments (I cannot find a decent way to organize them):

- you've restored too many bonus merchant's items

- you have moved some unique items here and there and I have to check all instances (nice touch with Halcyon, I'll add a new Talos-related lore to it and move its current lore to another weapon)

- Rod of Resurrection should be "temple only" imo

- I'd probably keep non magical weapons/armors for Ribald

- where did you moved Lady Yuth?

- if you ask me there still are too many stores with arcane scrolls

- nice touch with temples being related to their gods when it comes to items they sell (e.g. Helm with bastard swords, Lathander with maces and anti-undead items, ...)

- I never noticed there were so many unused divine scrolls! I'll have to check if SR handle them!

 

You're asking me to come up with some unique store template but I think you've covered most of them (e.g. armorers, fletchers, ...):

- we may opt to make some scroll stores more unique by making them school-related (a creepy Necromancer, a charming Enchanter lady, a gnome Illusionist, ...)

- we may have a store dedicated only to wands

- a dwarf merchant may sell almost only heavy armors, axes and hammers (perhaps we can move there the Dwarven Thrower)

- an elf merchant may sell almost only bows and long swords (perhaps an elven chain mail)

 

I really don't mind if most stores have a really limited item selection, and it's actually "realistic". Where the hell can they keep hundreds of items?! Except few of them (e.g. Ribald or Shadow Thieves) they really don't have the space to store many items, and they don't even have guards to secure a treasure which could fit a dragon's hoard!

 

 

P.S wasn't it easier to erase all stores and build them from scratch? You suggest this for temples within the tp2, but why not extending it to all stores? Because it's really hard for me to check your work not-knowing which items are still there (I only know the ones you remove and the ones you add).

[yarpen]

I'd probably keep non magical weapons/armors for Ribald

Not sure about this, y'know - that's domain of blacksmiths. Ribald was an adventurer who gained A LOT of treasures and money, his shop is prestigous so he should have only magical items and artifacts.

 

nice touch with temples being related to their gods when it comes to items they sell (e.g. Helm with bastard swords, Lathander with maces and anti-undead items, ...)

c00l!

 

we may have a store dedicated only to wands

c00l! x2

 

I never noticed there were so many unused divine scrolls! I'll have to check if SR handle them!

Yeah, and the only way to obtain them was to buy Lesser Restoration scrolls from temples or to kill hobgoblins (shamans usually had Cure Serious Wounds). It'd be quite nice to see some higher-level scrolls too.

 

an elf merchant may sell almost only bows and long swords (perhaps an elven chain mail)

Moving elven chain somewhere earlier to shop would be a nice touch (thanks to being quite unique it can be quite expensive - custom item with raised price). Ribald or Elven Shop (maybe also lesser Boots of Elves/Cloak of Elves?)

 

 

if you ask me there still are too many stores with arcane scrolls

IMO there should be two, maybe three of them. One legal (someone at Adventures Mart), one illegal (Lady Yuth). And some lower-level scrolls from thieves.

 

What about Trademeet?

[Ardanis]

you've restored too many bonus merchant's items

I hardly use them ever, so if you say too many then perhaps too many.

 

- you have moved some unique items here and there and I have to check all instances (nice touch with Halcyon, I'll add a new Talos-related lore to it and move its current lore to another weapon)

Nymph cloak - from Gorch to Umar Hills

Wolfbane charm - the same fat guy in UH

Blade of Roses - from Bernard to Oghma's temple in docks

Xbow of Speed and Sword of Flame - only Bernard's special stock, not his both

 

Temples' original stuff:

Cleric's staff - Waukeen's temple in gov dist

Helm of Charm Protection - Helm in temp dist

Girdle of bluntness - Helm in temp dist, De'Arnise

Staff of Striking, Boots of Grounding, Halcyon - Talos

Martial staff - Trademeet's nobleman

Ring of Animal Friendship - Oghma and Ribald

 

Unless I'm mistaken, besides IR's already made changes, that's all.

 

- Rod of Resurrection should be "temple only" imo

Hm. I suppose either give it to Lathander temple, or leave in Ribald's stock (his prices are higher).

 

- I'd probably keep non magical weapons/armors for Ribald

Here I agree with Yarpen.

 

- where did you moved Lady Yuth?

Temple district, near Lathander's, under tree. Appears early in the morning and 14-18.

 

P.S wasn't it easier to erase all stores and build them from scratch? You suggest this for temples within the tp2, but why not extending it to all stores? Because it's really hard for me to check your work not-knowing which items are still there (I only know the ones you remove and the ones you add).

There's a 'tools' folder with item lists I copypasted from (you wouldn't expect me to manually type name for each and every item, would you?).

Items left be are 99% 0/+1/+2 stuff and uniques, excluding the abovementioned. Ammo/potions/scrolls are all overwritten via 'ADD_ +', with exception of Galoomp's low-level scrolls (whom I did among the first), and stores labeled as 'untouched', like Brynnlaw, sahuagin city, etc.

[Shaitan]

I like what Ardanis did

[Ardanis]

Do you think Mace of Disruption should be moved to Lathander's temple? Aside from fitting there perfectly, why would vampires keep such an item in their lair anyway?

 

I never noticed there were so many unused divine scrolls!

Atm there're following present

 

greater restoration

cure serious wounds

free action

neutralize poison

mental domination

defensive harmony

protection from lightning

protection from evil 10' radius

champion's strength

chaotic commands

cure critical wounds

flame strike

raise dead

 

I think I can manage to make some more till the after tomorrow. Should I bother, or these are enough?

 

I'll have to check if SR handle them!

Meaning what?

[Demivrgvs]

- Rod of Resurrection should be "temple only" imo

Hm. I suppose either give it to Lathander temple, or leave in Ribald's stock (his prices are higher).

I think it fits temples much more, and if it's only a matter of price I'll see if its current value is too low.

 

- I'd probably keep non magical weapons/armors for Ribald

Here I agree with Yarpen.

Ok ok, I may agree.

 

- where did you moved Lady Yuth?

Temple district, near Lathander's, under tree. Appears early in the morning and 14-18.

Interesting...I wasn't much against her being where she was in vanilla, but considering you've made Deidre the licensed scroll seller your solution seems fine.

 

P.S wasn't it easier to erase all stores and build them from scratch? You suggest this for temples within the tp2, but why not extending it to all stores? Because it's really hard for me to check your work not-knowing which items are still there (I only know the ones you remove and the ones you add).

There's a 'tools' folder with item lists I copypasted from (you wouldn't expect me to manually type name for each and every item, would you?).

Items left be are 99% 0/+1/+2 stuff and uniques, excluding the abovementioned. Ammo/potions/scrolls are all overwritten via 'ADD_ +', with exception of Galoomp's low-level scrolls (whom I did among the first), and stores labeled as 'untouched', like Brynnlaw, sahuagin city, etc.

I'm just saying that it may be easier to remove everything and then add whatever we want mainly because when it comes to further changes you (or I) have to look at multiple files to know the exact list of items within a store.

 

I also had other worries (e.g. at first sight I thought items were appearing in random order) but looking at your code you've done a great job (e.g. even if listed in "random" order items are still placed into stores with the "correct" order).

 

 

Do you think Mace of Disruption should be moved to Lathander's temple? Aside from fitting there perfectly, why would vampires keep such an item in their lair anyway?

Mmm...isn't it a little too powerful to be available in stores so soon? There are A LOT of undead creatures in the first chapters that you're usually forced to face without such a powerful anti-undead item (rebuttal: Azuredge does almost the same and is easily available).

 

My thought was that vampires were actually keeping it concealed and guarded...but pehaps replacing it with a more sinister item may be better (e.g. Vampire's Revenge, or something like that).

 

I never noticed there were so many unused divine scrolls!

Atm there're following present

...

I think I can manage to make some more till the after tomorrow. Should I bother, or these are enough?

Personally I don't like divine scrolls too much (I don't know why) but I don't mind about them being around because I'm sure some players may like it instead.

 

I'll have to check if SR handle them!

Meaning what?

Assigning them the updated descriptions.

[Ardanis]

Mmm...isn't it a little too powerful to be available in stores so soon? There are A LOT of undead creatures in the first chapters that you're usually forced to face without such a powerful anti-undead item (rebuttal: Azuredge does almost the same and is easily available).

But what prevents increasing it's price, say, double? Besides, I do think that a party of wealthy adventurers should really be able to fully (well, almost) equip themselves in shops of a city like Athkatla. Archmage robes go here as well. Party isn't going to have enough gold to buy all the stuff on a first day anycase scenario, so why not to let them decide what to purchase first.

Most importantly, if I really wanted MoD early I could pay ST/Bodhi the sum of 15k and get it for free. If SCS's component is installed, meaning higher sum required, then it's even more reasonable to think twice before the purchase and/or illithium upgrade.

 

Speaking of Azuredge (which also has an advantage over MoD due to throwable mode), the Tempus cleric that may appear in De'Arnise hasn't got any special axe. Not every player gets to access his service, so I'd give him something real good.

 

So no real balance change, after all

 

PS

I think Staff of Curing (free loot in Graveyard) definitely goes to Ilmater temple. Leaving only Helm without a good item. The Lawgiver bastard sword sounds great, but then what to offer as a Copper Coronet quest reward?

[yarpen]

The Lawgiver bastard sword sounds great, but then what to offer as a Copper Coronet quest reward?

I think that a sort of magical necklace or ring fits perfectly, because Lehtinan doesn't look as fighter at all.

 

If SCS's component is installed, meaning higher sum required, then it's even more reasonable to think twice before the purchase and/or illithium upgrade.

What do you think about Illithium available in Underdark dwarves shop? Possibility of improving mace not for bad-guy characters! (Demi mentioned it long time ago)

 

Ring of Animal Friendship - Oghma and Ribald

Oghma is a god of knowledge, not animals. Maybe Glasses of Identification?

[Ardanis]

I think that a sort of magical necklace or ring fits perfectly, because Lehtinan doesn't look as fighter at all.

There's a Silver Amulet/Wolfsbane Charm, that I initially put in Umar Hills, although I forgot that werewolves were residing in Windspear, and so Immensville folks shouldn't have been worrying about lycantropes.

What's funny here, is that both items in vanilla game are anti-lycantrope ;D

 

Oghma is a god of knowledge, not animals. Maybe Glasses of Identification?

Gave him that ring only because he has the Charm domain. But you're absolutely right, Glasses sound much better.

 

What do you think about Illithium available in Underdark dwarves shop? Possibility of improving mace not for bad-guy characters! (Demi mentioned it long time ago)

I think it's a good thing to do.

[Demivrgvs]

Mmm...isn't Mace of Disruption a little too powerful to be available in stores so soon? ...

But what prevents increasing it's price, say, double? Besides, I do think that a party of wealthy adventurers should really be able to fully (well, almost) equip themselves in shops of a city like Athkatla. Party isn't going to have enough gold to buy all the stuff on a first day anycase scenario, so why not to let them decide what to purchase first.

You have a point. The current value is lower than it should (5000gp instead of 7500gp), thus players would pay 12000gp for it in a store (before applying charisma's discount though).

 

Most importantly, if I really wanted MoD early I could pay ST/Bodhi the sum of 15k and get it for free.

This is indeed hilarious...you side with her and you get THE anti-undead weapon. Have you any suggestion to replace MoD in blood pool? If you like mine I may revise Vampire's Revenge a little. Something like an effective vampiric effect (instead of the false one) but with the side effect of constantly drain wielder's hit points (making the cursed flag quite a pain unless you have a Ring of Regeneration).

 

Speaking of Azuredge (which also has an advantage over MoD due to throwable mode), the Tempus cleric that may appear in De'Arnise hasn't got any special axe. Not every player gets to access his service, so I'd give him something real good.

Mmm...not sure about it. I understand you want an axe because it's Tempus weapon of choice, but something good for any fighter may actually be even better. In the meanwhile though I really wouldn't mind to move Azuredge here if you wish, still better than having such a powerful item available from the innerkeep within the slums!

 

I think Staff of Curing (free loot in Graveyard) definitely goes to Ilmater temple.

 

Leaving only Helm without a good item. The Lawgiver bastard sword sounds great, but then what to offer as a Copper Coronet quest reward?

Yep, Lawgiver seems perfect for the Temple of Helm. I'll think about a replacement for Copper Coronet quest.

 

Oghma is a god of knowledge, not animals. Maybe Glasses of Identification?

Gave him that ring only because he has the Charm domain. But you're absolutely right, Glasses sound much better.

Hi hi, I was going to say the same (which doesn't surprise me).

 

What do you think about Illithium available in Underdark dwarves shop? Possibility of improving mace not for bad-guy characters! (Demi mentioned it long time ago)

I think it's a good thing to do.

Me too.

[Ardanis]

Have you any suggestion to replace MoD in blood pool? If you like mine I may revise Vampire's Revenge a little. Something like an effective vampiric effect (instead of the false one) but with the side effect of constantly drain wielder's hit points (making the cursed flag quite a pain unless you have a Ring of Regeneration)

I can think of the Helm of Darkness, but it feels way too powerful to be looted for almost nothing in Ch.3.

 

Mmm...not sure about it. I understand you want an axe because it's Tempus weapon of choice, but something good for any fighter may actually be even better.

There's Delver's Plate (+3 and +3 saves vs spells in IR) armor on orc chief in Windspear. Easy loot for 11-12 party, though they may already be well packed by that point.

 

There's a Stone Giant Belt in Ch.7, which I have no objection to having gone from a usual play (with a total of four STR belts in game!), but it can be too much, especially if we buy Ribald's belt as well.

 

Gauntlets of Weapon Something, well, I'd say no.

 

Or move Ogre Gauntlets to Ribald - for Crom Fayer (not that I personally want it, but it doesn't matter), and his belt to cleric. But then it means only one STR item for very long time.

 

Or make a real mess re-allocating belts/gauntlets, but it's exactly what it is - a real mess. Unless many find it okay.

 

In other words - I don't know what the warrior item should be.

[yarpen]

There's Delver's Plate (+3 and +3 saves vs spells in IR) armor on orc chief in Windspear

Oh noes! Cool in terms of it's story armour of charismatic fighter-knight on back of smelly orc? No way. Maybe Orc's Skin, sounds like cannibalism but cannibalism is (as I think) nothing so bad among orc-kin. The only proper place for Delver's Plate is I think Ribald's Store. But I like you touch - granting new item to Madulf grants to player great profit when he's killing him instead of pacifist method (your choice: xp reward or cool stuff).

 

Gave him that ring only because he has the Charm domain.

Charm Animal comes from Animal sphere

 

This is indeed hilarious...you side with her and you get THE anti-undead weapon. lol.gif Have you any suggestion to replace MoD in blood pool? If you like mine I may revise Vampire's Revenge a little. Something like an effective vampiric effect (instead of the false one) but with the side effect of constantly drain wielder's hit points (making the cursed flag quite a pain unless you have a Ring of Regeneration).

Can't you just get cursed sword as a sort of Bodhi's twisted humour? It'd be quite cool if you, Demi, 'd implement Item Randomiser mechanism in term of cursed items (or is it Salk's?). As an option: quite powerfull, Ghoul Skin armour.

 

I understand you want an axe because it's Tempus weapon of choice, but something good for any fighter may actually be even better.

Maybe this staff which can transform into Mace/Spear/Sword? And yes, this item really needs revision. It has potential for being great weapon for warrior and good reward for maintaining Keep.

 

Ardanis, what do you think about moving Periapt of Life and Death to Lathander's store? It fits Lathanderities perfectly, but you'll have to think about alternative reward for Lathander clerics.

 

Edit:

PS. After 11 hours of work, there's A-grade!

[Demivrgvs]

Or move Ogre Gauntlets to Ribald...

It's partially related to this, but moving the Gauntlets of Ogre Power isn't so "stupid" as you might think, because they are supposed to be unique and you had it in BG1 (Irenicus may have sold them after capturing you). Otoh, we do know such item is far from unique, thus perhaps it's easier to simply alter the description rather than messing with a lot of item allocations.

 

 

This is indeed hilarious...you side with her and you get THE anti-undead weapon. lol.gif Have you any suggestion to replace MoD in blood pool? If you like mine I may revise Vampire's Revenge a little. Something like an effective vampiric effect (instead of the false one) but with the side effect of constantly drain wielder's hit points (making the cursed flag quite a pain unless you have a Ring of Regeneration).

Can't you just get cursed sword as a sort of Bodhi's twisted humour? It'd be quite cool if you, Demi, 'd implement Item Randomiser mechanism in term of cursed items (or is it Salk's?). As an option: quite powerfull, Ghoul Skin armour.

Vampire's Revenge fits the blood pool better than any other item imo. Speaking of Skin of the Ghoul though I think that unless we want to move it elsewhere a really good thing would be to move it from Teshal's inventory to the armor slot (though a ghoul wearing this armor seems controversial), so that players can face its nasty stench effect.

 

P.S I've to talk with Salk about cursed item because if not for v3 I really want to something about that.

 

Ardanis, what do you think about moving Periapt of Life and Death to Lathander's store? It fits Lathanderities perfectly, but you'll have to think about alternative reward for Lathander clerics.

Lathander's temple is starting to get more unique items than Ribald with Radiant Plate, Mace of Disruption and Periapt of Life Protection! Anyway, speaking of cleric's stronghold rewards, isn't 3 "unique" items too much? Not to mention that Armor of Faith, Ring of Holiness and the amulet aren't really "unique", with their current lore it's quite clear the opposite.

 

There's also a small bug we may fix. I think it's possible to obtain two Ardulia's Fall maces with some of these rewards (don't remember how, I think with Talos stronghold).

 

 

PS. After 11 hours of work, there's A-grade!

[Ardanis]

Lathander's temple is starting to get more unique items than Ribald with Radiant Plate, Mace of Disruption and Periapt of Life Protection!

Just so you know, I moved the plate to Trademeet's smithy, which is called Anvil of the Dawn.