Revised Stores

[Demivrgvs]

Ardanis suggested to code a component to re-allocate, reduce/remove potions in the game, and I'm going to expand "a little" such suggestion and see if he's willing to code something like that, or if most of you would even care about it.

 

Features:

1) more unique/appropriate stores

2) better organized/more easy to scroll stores

 

1) I think it's easier to give some examples. Ribald shouldn't sell scrolls imo, he should focus on weapons/armors and magical items. In the very same room Lady Yuth sells all sort of scrolls illegally, and within Athkatla (and probably the whole Amn excluding the Underdark) very few merchants should sell scrolls imo (e.g fences or similar "merchants" affiliated to Shadow Thieves). Like Ardanis suggested I'd remove most or even all potions from most stores, but I'd create a sort of "alchemist-type merchant" who sells a lot of potions (that's what I first had in mind for Joluv, but there surely are others more appropriate characters). Another nice touch would be to refine fletchers to make them a place you'd really want to visit (I never visited the one in Waukeen Promenade even when charname was an Archer kit). Temples should mainly sell healing and curative potions and few divine scrolls.

 

2) Scrolls should be listed based on their level, I shouldn't search for a 3rd lvl spell after a 7th lvl one and before a 2nd lvl one! Weapons and armors should be listed like this: base weapon/armor - magical ones - unique ones, and then reapeat for the next weapon/armor/item.

 

I think it's pretty clear what I have in mind even if I don't write all the details.

 

 

P.S Ardanis, don't feel "obliged" to work on that, I'm just suggesting it in case you (or someone else) has the time/skill to work on it. My time will soon be again extremely limited and I've an incredibly huge amount of things to do for IR, SR and KR.

[Shaitan]

Marvellous

[yarpen]

Miss Cragmoon

Miss Cragmoon isn't this woman which sells potions at the Bridge? (little boy accuses her on being a witch).

 

1) Changes on overall sounds really good. Athkatla is a specific city where magic stuff should be hard to obtain. Potions and scrolls especially, because magic equipment isn't usually touched by Cowled Wizards. Personally I think that there should be a whole band of "official" sellers in Adventure Mart - it's usually te place where you're refilling potions, scrolls, artifacts. It's very well known so dealers there have a license for everything. But you have to pay for it.

 

On the other hand there are some semi-secret sellers of goods such as Roger from Sewers, who's selling some potions. He should have much better prices than official merchants. This "illegal scrolls seller" in Adventure Mart isn't to appropriate you know. She should be also hiding in some less obvious place.

 

Yes for fletcher!

[Ardanis]

Weapons and armors should be listed like this: base weapon/armor - magical ones - unique ones, and then reapeat for the next weapon/armor/item.

Can only be done manually as there's no 'unique' flag, which basically means that mod-added stores\items won't likely be affected. If that's okay then fine.

[Mike1072]

Weapons and armors should be listed like this: base weapon/armor - magical ones - unique ones, and then reapeat for the next weapon/armor/item.

Can only be done manually as there's no 'unique' flag, which basically means that mod-added stores\items won't likely be affected. If that's okay then fine.

You might be able to get away with checking to see if it's not non-unique (ie. comparing the item reference to known vanilla unenchanted, +1, +2, etc. items and classifying as unique if it matches none).

[Demivrgvs]

Miss Cragmoon isn't this woman which sells potions at the Bridge? (little boy accuses her on being a witch).

Fixed, I was talking about Lady Yuth.

 

 

Weapons and armors should be listed like this: base weapon/armor - magical ones - unique ones, and then reapeat for the next weapon/armor/item.

Can only be done manually as there's no 'unique' flag, which basically means that mod-added stores\items won't likely be affected. If that's okay then fine.

Re-organizing vanilla's ones would still mean having the vast majority of items correctly placed. Then, mod added items are almost surely unique items, thus if the author wants to adhere to such "revision" he could simply put the item after the magical non-unique version of it (a fixed vanilla filename), which is something I'd do even without this component.

 

I'm sure modders like aVENGER would do it, and personally I don't care much about most item-adding mods because except RR I consider almost all of their items not within IR's standards (overpowered, exploitable, with non-standardized descriptions, and so on). I'm not saying such mods are crap and I don't want to offend anyone, I'm just saying that IR has a certain "philosophy" and more often than not those mods have a completely different one. For example I really can't care less of it if IR doesn't handle items such as the ones mentioned in this topic for Mega Mod installations because they actually disintegrate all our work/discussions on balance and preventing exploits.

 

That's just my 2 cents though, and I'm almost sure Mike would prefer to handle eveything instead, unbalanced mod-added items as well.

[Ardanis]

items such as the ones mentioned in this topic

Oh dear...

 

Then it's decided, especially since I haven't thought about

checking to see if it's not non-unique

[yarpen]

I'm sure modders like aVENGER would do it, and personally I don't care much about most item-adding mods because except RR I consider almost all of their items not within IR's standards (overpowered, exploitable, with non-standardized descriptions, and so on). I'm not saying such mods are crap and I don't want to offend anyone, I'm just saying that IR has a certain "philosophy" and more often than not those mods have a completely different one. For example I really can't care less of it if IR doesn't handle items such as the ones mentioned in this topic for Mega Mod installations because they actually disintegrate all our work/discussions on balance and preventing exploits.

I think that's good philosophy. IR brings to BG2 new quality line, so why thinking about gear which is far worse than even this vanilla one? Maybe there should be some component which makes a bit IR'zation of few mod items (but dunno, some NPC stuff? BG1 NPC Project? Kivan? Kelsey?) but no for MegaMods. I hope that people are that retard only in Poland to think that TDD is one of the 'BEAST MODD EVAH', guh huh. Thanks to these kits I cannot sleep at nights. Still. After few years.

 

So where are you going to "put" Lady Yuth instead of Adventure Mart? And what sort of merchants are you going to add to Adventure Mart?

 

Having fencers selling Leather Jackets and Daggers is stupid. You can buy them everywhere. I think that in Athkatla it'd be more illegal to sell those potions and scrolls.

[Constantine]

Ardanis suggested to code a component to re-allocate, reduce/remove potions in the game, and I'm going to expand "a little" such suggestion and see if he's willing to code something like that, or if most of you would even care about it.

 

Features:

1) more unique/appropriate stores

2) better organized/more easy to scroll stores

Very good ideas! Go for it!

[Miloch]

personally I don't care much about most item-adding mods because except RR I consider almost all of their items not within IR's standards (overpowered, exploitable, with non-standardized descriptions, and so on).

This is really a grandiose claim against all mods ("except RR") and surely a false one. Though it is probably true of a lot of the older, larger mods.

 

I do think most stores have too much general-type of stuff (scrolls, ammunition, etc.) and they're poorly organised as well. If it has more than 40 or 50 items, it's too much IMO. The average medieval-type of store wasn't like Walmart or something. Just don't overwrite stores .

[Demivrgvs]

personally I don't care much about most item-adding mods because except RR I consider almost all of their items not within IR's standards (overpowered, exploitable, with non-standardized descriptions, and so on).

This is really a grandiose claim against all mods ("except RR") and surely a false one. Though it is probably true of a lot of the older, larger mods.

Oh my...am I not entitled to have an opinion? Anyway, I've said MOST mods and not ALL exactly because I'm sure there may be some cool and fine mod-added item out there, but I can't look each and every item from tons of mods. Furthermore when a mod introduces some fine items together with overpowered/exploitable items the whole mod is not fine for IR's standard.

 

Take a look at this link at tell me I'm wrong when I say MOST mods don't meet our criteria.

 

P.S I'm not saying IR shouldn't work with such mods (it does) or that this component won't work with them (it will if they simply add the items at the end of the stores lists), I was just saying I don't care if such mods don't blend into this component as well as the most important, better refined mods.

 

I do think most stores have too much general-type of stuff (scrolls, ammunition, etc.) and they're poorly organised as well. If it has more than 40 or 50 items, it's too much IMO. The average medieval-type of store wasn't like Walmart or something.

I agree.

 

Just don't overwrite stores .

I've left this component in the hands of Ardanis.

[yarpen]

If it has more than 40 or 50 items, it's too much IMO. The average medieval-type of store wasn't like Walmart or something.

With exception of Adventure Mart (but it should be divided into few characters: Ribald sells artifacts and magic weapons; someone is selling scrolls; other one for potions etc.) stores should be more unique. So no for non-magical weapons in nearly every store!

[Demivrgvs]

Ardanis, I've absolutely no intention to put pressure on you, but if you still want to work on this and you wish this to be included within IR v3 you may need to know that Mike do put pressure on me (and it's quite a good idea to do so because else I tend to lose a lot of time) and the ETA for v3 is the 7th of January.

 

Feel free to use this topic to discuss anything related to this.

[Ardanis]

Alright, here is something I'd wish to hear an opinion on, it partially concerns Gate Revision as well - do we need a jeweler type of merchant, selling a handful of precious gems?

 

In vanilla game I recall collecting around 15-20 diamonds, a dozen of emeralds/rogue stones, several star sapphires, don't remeber how many king's/laeral's tears. With that in mind, I estimate the reasonable price to be, say, 10-15 gems per summon (8-12 for 8th spell and 7-8 for 7th) - those appear reasonably late in game, there was a talk about special bribes, party can always opt to sneak under Protection from Evil and avoid paying at all.

 

Having a couple of merchants willing to provide extra currency in exchange for 50-60k gold might come in handy.

[Shaitan]

Sounds good to me, but if it isn't necessary then don't bother.

 

Cheers