IR Revised V1.3.800 (2022 January 11th)

[Bartimaeus]

Question to anyone and everyone: is there any kind of obvious or super exploitable situation in giving every class a +1 backstab modifier? Wondering specifically in the case of the Sword of Backstabbing, because I can't give the +1 modifier to just Stalkers because the original game does not support kit-targeted 177 opcodes, which means I have to give it to rangers as a whole...and at that point, I'm wondering if I just shouldn't have this be a very special case of allowing anyone and everyone to use it for a 2x backstab. It's not as if other classes outside of rangers and thieves can easily go into stealth constantly anyways, right? It'd be a little weird that a mage-fighter could get a 2x backstab if they cast invisibility on themselves, but it doesn't really seem like it should be that big of an issue on the whole to me.

@Lianos Okay, installed a copy of BG1EE with IRR + SRR, here we go.

• Sunin, Nashkel Ankheg Armor, and other BG1 items (e.g. Whistling Sword, Telbar's Armor): Found the issues with each, and it's localized to BG1EE-only games, corrected.
• Heart of the Golem: Yes, there is an additional version of Marek in BG1EE called MAREK1, I'll get him as well.
• Invisibility + wands: Unable to substantiate, see https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/ehemm0s5mibf1uw/97AaWg5UAO.mp4.

 

6 hours ago, Lianos said:

Please add a Spear +1 and a Two-Handed Sword +1 to the smith in Beregost (after the mine is cleared).

Arghain in the area north of the carnival has a Two-Handed Sword +1...but the lack of an early Spear +1 available anywhere without having to murderhobo someone random (e.g. the paladin in the Friendly Arm Inn, who does have one) does seem a little inexplicable.

(e): Also, Lianos, you should really have your installation order be IR -> SR and not SR -> IR as per the install order suggested in the main post.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Lord_Tansheron]

3 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Question to anyone and everyone: is there any kind of obvious or super exploitable situation in giving every class a +1 backstab modifier?

Probably nothing super broken since it's only +1. Can't remember how Mislead works with SR... is it still perma invis if the image is stored in a safe place? Could potentially give rise to some kind of F/M abomination using (off-handing?) Sword of Backstabbing for effectively constant double damage attacks without having to "waste" XP on being a thief.

[Bartimaeus]

15 minutes ago, Lord_Tansheron said:

Probably nothing super broken since it's only +1. Can't remember how Mislead works with SR... is it still perma invis if the image is stored in a safe place? Could potentially give rise to some kind of F/M abomination using (off-handing?) Sword of Backstabbing for effectively constant double damage attacks without having to "waste" XP on being a thief.

Yeah, Mislead is so horribly broken that I don't even see the point of trying to balance for it. Honestly, I wasn't sure if SR had made any changes to it either since it's not a spell I ever touch, and sure enough, still completely broken. And thief-mages can already abuse that and there's not much I can do about it. SD probably has the right of just making Mislead and Project Image lesser Simulacrums...

[subtledoctor]

Why everyone? Why not just rangers? You can use 177 by class, right? (I made a mod specifically to give backstab to rangers - makes sense since they naturally have stealth.)

[Lianos]

2 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Why everyone? Why not just rangers? You can use 177 by class, right? (I made a mod specifically to give backstab to rangers - makes sense since they naturally have stealth.)

+1

Btw, how are Swashbucklers excluded atm?

 

13 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Invisibility + wands: Unable to substantiate, see https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/ehemm0s5mibf1uw/97AaWg5UAO.mp4.

Alright, lets test:

All tests done with a Sorcerer drinking a Potion if Invisibility and using a Wand of Frost.

BG1EE 2.6.6 with SoD + modmerge + IRR (only main component) -  invisiblity does not break

BG1EE 2.5.17 w/o SoD + IRR (only main component) - invisiblity breaks

BG1EE 2.5.17 with SoD - invisiblity breaks

BG1EE 2.5.17 with SoD + modmerge - invisiblity breaks

BG1EE 2.5.17 with SoD + modmerge + IRR (only main component) - invisiblity breaks

BG1EE 2.6.6 w/o SoD - invisiblity breaks

BG1EE 2.6.6 w/o SoD + IRR (only main component) - invisiblity does not break

My conclusion: IRR does not like Patch 2.6.6.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Lianos

[subtledoctor]

54 minutes ago, Lianos said:

My conclusion: IRR does not like Patch 2.6.6.

Sounds like Beamdog included some undocumented changes to the file structures in the recent patch, for unexplained reasons. Imagine my surprise.

Good testing though, that is helpful.

[Bartimaeus]

3 hours ago, Lianos said:

Btw, how are Swashbucklers excluded atm?

They aren't - it's not possible to do so in the original engine, though it is possible to do so in the EE engine. At this time, I don't really make design changes for items across engines except for EE-only items.

5 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Why everyone? Why not just rangers? You can use 177 by class, right? (I made a mod specifically to give backstab to rangers - makes sense since they naturally have stealth.)

Monks as well, but yeah, I'm struggling with that right now. I guess it just feels to me that if I'm giving the ability to backstab to a bunch of kits that aren't supposed to have it, it makes more sense to just give it to everyone. But you're probably right.

3 hours ago, Lianos said:

My conclusion: IRR does not like Patch 2.6.6.

Ah, yes, I'm still on BG1EE 2.5, which is why everything seemed to work fine for me. Thanks for testing it. This also presumably means all such quickslot items are broken in that manner, including from IR. If try a wand on 2.6 without IR, does it still not break? If it does break, then I might need to investigate why and perhaps replicate it for EE games...

[Lianos]

7 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

If try a wand on 2.6 without IR, does it still not break?

-->

3 hours ago, Lianos said:

BG1EE 2.6.6 w/o SoD - invisiblity breaks

As vanilla as possible, no mods.

[Bartimaeus]

2 minutes ago, Lianos said:

-->

As vanilla as possible, no mods.

Oops, missed it. Okay, I'll figure that one out and see if I can fix it relatively easily via patching.

[Bartimaeus]

9 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Sounds like Beamdog included some undocumented changes to the file structures in the recent patch, for unexplained reasons. Imagine my surprise.

Good testing though, that is helpful.

So in 2.6, all quickslot items now need the "break sanctuary/invisibility" bit set on their ability, even if they directly apply an overtly overtly hostile effect (e.g. Magic Missile). Alternatively, if the quickslot item does actually reference a .spl (or presumably an .eff that references a spell, or...), the spell can also have its "break sanctuary/invisibility" bit set and that works too. Not really sure why different mechanics for item vs. spells were really necessary.

...To my great combination of horror and amusement, they might not be? It's just that 2.6 enables the "break sanctuary/invisibility" flag on literally every hostile spell now. Surely...this does not mean exactly what I think means, does it? This would suggest that all of SR is broken and you can currently cast hostile spells while invisible directly against enemies without ever breaking your invisibility. Do I dare check?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/urtandt0p1mfz3u/7SeQkscsZG.mp4

...Not quite, but almost? Spells that aren't flagged as hostile (e.g. Charm Person and Sleep here) will never break invisibility, but spells that are marked as hostile (e.g. Magic Missile) do. Items that cast spells marked as hostile should really also do the same, but they don't now for some reason...

What a roddy, cloddy idea this was. Guess I need to make some fixes for SRR too...

Edited September 6, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[kjeron]

BIT10 (Hostile) breaks both sanctuary and invisibility, triggers "AttackedBy()", and allows it to be blocked by spell-level immunity when self-targeted.

BIT9 (Break Sanc/Invis) breaks both sanctuary and invisibility.

No spell or item breaks sanctuary or invisibility without either flag anymore, which was the whole point, to remove the previously hard-coded restrictions.

Damage still triggers "AttackedBy()", but has otherwise never carried the other effects of BIT10 "Hostile" by itself.

Magic Missile has never been and is still not considered "Hostile" as far as the game is concerned.  You could always cast it without breaking sanc/invis, they were only ever broken when casting it because you happened to targeted someone else - no different that casting Cure Light Wounds on them.

Items that cast spells instantly function no differently than spells that cast other spells instantly.  Instant casting generally ignores the subspells header flags.

Items/spells that cast spells non-instantly will generally respect those two flags in the spell header: scrolls in the vanilla game don't have either set and break depending on the spell they cast.

Edited September 6, 2021 by kjeron

[Bartimaeus]

Thanks for the fuller explanation of what's going on. And this change is brand new to 2.6 at least in regards to using item abilities?

36 minutes ago, kjeron said:

No spell or item breaks sanctuary or invisibility without either flag anymore, which was the whole point, to remove the previously hard-coded restrictions.

Guess this means some spells, such as Charm Person, will need the break sanctuary/invisibility flag set even though they're not set to hostile, as otherwise you could cast it willy-nilly at enemies without breaking invisibility (...but you also need to be able to cast it on neutrals without aggroing them, hence the issue).

36 minutes ago, kjeron said:

Magic Missile has never been and is still not considered "Hostile" as far as the game is concerned.  You could always cast it without breaking sanc/invis, they were only ever broken when casting it because you happened to targeted someone else - no different that casting Cure Light Wounds on them.

Items that cast spells instantly function no differently than spells that cast other spells instantly.  Instant casting generally ignores the subspells header flags.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like the EEs are now in a situation where you cannot imitate original game behavior. Original game behavior was that you can target yourself with single-target spells such as Cure Wounds (or indeed Magic Missile) without breaking invisibility...but nobody else, friendlies OR hostiles. Now the two options presented to you are you can either target everyone freely...or no-one, not even yourself. If so, I feel like this may have repercussions for SCS's AI spellcasting...

Edited September 6, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[kjeron]

 

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Thanks for the fuller explanation of what's going on. And this change is brand new to 2.6 at least in regards to using item abilities?

Prior to v2.6, item abilities still broke invisibility when targeting others.

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like the EEs are now in a situation where you cannot imitate original game behavior. Original game behavior was that you can target yourself with single-target spells such as Cure Wounds (or indeed Magic Missile) without breaking invisibility...but nobody else, friendlies OR hostiles. Now the two options presented to you are you can either target everyone freely...or no-one, not even yourself. If so, I feel like this may have repercussions for SCS's AI spellcasting...

Correct

[Lianos]

Sounds like fun (not).

I'm here if something needs to be tested.

For the time being, the non-support of Patch 2.6 should be noted in the readme.

[subtledoctor]

If you want a bit of a fast forward dealing with this, check this code from lines 506-656. It was written for 2.5, not specifically for 2.6, but it’s a quick way to set a list of spells that should, or should not, break invisibility. 

12 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Original game behavior was that you can target yourself with single-target spells such as Cure Wounds (or indeed Magic Missile) without breaking invisibility...but nobody else, friendlies OR hostiles. Now the two options presented to you are you can either target everyone freely...or no-one, not even yourself. If so, I feel like this may have repercussions for SCS's AI spellcasting

Eh, original game behavior (and various amendments to it with engine patches) always seemed pretty weird and arbitrary to me. IMHO default behavior should be “casting a spell breaks invisibility” and then consider whether a select few exceptions should be made. (Sanctuary is a different story since it is kind of designed for friendly spellcasting... to me the most annoying change about this patch is lumping Sanctuary together with Invisibility. (But then again my mod already does that so who am I to complain?)) 

I have a feeling that even if more spells break invisibility, SCS AI will play just fine. Time will tell though...