Do shamans get high-level abilities?

[temnix]

Well, do they? Anything special there that priests don't get?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Well, the Shamans HLA table is the LUSH01.2da...

They get sppr751.spl, spcr940.spl, and spcr941.spl.

[temnix]

I'm going to have to thank the Imp... Yuh...

[temnix]

So Shamans get Mass Raise Dead as a high-level ability? How is that possible? The spell is forbidden to them, and they don't even get the ordinary Raise Dead.

[subtledoctor]

Don’t they get “Recall Spirit,” which is the same thing?

[Jarno Mikkola]

57 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Don’t they get “Recall Spirit,” which is the same thing?

Normally that's Jaheira only ability... I am of course talking about druids, non-EE and non-modded, so take it with that knowledge.

[subtledoctor]

Jaheira gets "Harper's Call."  For whatever reason, Beamdog decided that Shamans should not get Raise Dead, but then chickened out and gave them this:

 

[temnix]

Right. So I'm going to have to wipe out every variation on Raise Dead for them, and for Jaheira too. Any suggestion where to look for the shaman spell choice? Druids shouldn't have that spell either, but it's not unavailable to Shaman/Ranger/Druid or anyone else. SPPR550. A straight priest spell, and if it's not available to clerics, that must be because it's off the cleric spell selection list. Which files have the spell selection for druids, shamans and rangers?

[subtledoctor]

It’s not available to clerics/paladins because it has the “cleric” class exclusion flag set. I think it actually has the druid exclusion flag set as well, so nobody gets it by default. IIRC shamans only get it by force - look at clabsh01.2da. (Or clabshgs.2da - I forget which one the class actually uses.)

Edited February 25, 2021 by subtledoctor

[temnix]

No, that's the thing. It has no exclusion flags.

[subtledoctor]

Huh, that's true.  All of the shaman spells are in hidespl.2da though, so that a must be what stops them being automatically added to clerics and druids. (I didn't even realize hidespl.2da did that.) Then they are added manually in the shaman's kit table.

Seems like you could remove them from hidespl.2da and set both exclusion flags, and everything would work identically.  But then, that raises (NOT BEGS) the question of why Beamdog coded it the way they did...

[temnix]

This HIDESPL might be useful for creating ranger-only spells, too, or druid-only. That's very good.

[kjeron]

32 minutes ago, temnix said:

This HIDESPL might be useful for creating ranger-only spells, too, or druid-only. That's very good.

It's really not.  HIDESPL.2da serves no good purpose - all it does is further enable wasting the limited priest/wizard spell namespace.  It would better to be abolished, and all Shaman spells and HLA's it currently contains given a resref out of the reserved priest/wizard namespace.

[temnix]

I don't care about "namespace." I put my spells directly into books and scrolls and call them what I want. But I appreciate an opportunity to make special spells only for rangers, for example. Or shamans. How else do you give shamans exclusive spells, when the SPL exclusion flag bundles them with druids and rangers? In fact, with this file someone might go on to make a 3rd Edition-type class spell system: wizard spells, sorcerer spells, bard spells (the one that's really natural), ranger spells...

[Jarno Mikkola]

14 minutes ago, temnix said:

How else do you give shamans exclusive spells, when the SPL exclusion flag bundles them with druids and rangers?

You don't hide the spell via hidespl.ids file, but exclude it from paladin/clerics and druid/rangers in the .spl file, and then add it via clabxxxx.2da file to the said kit/class, just like say the OlvynChuru's mod does. There are several better ways to do this.

And to point this out, the hidespel.ids is for TECHNICAL mods, like say SCS, that need to use a scriptable spells that are a little strange.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Jarno Mikkola