SubtleMods: 5E Spellcasting Rules Conversion

[subtledoctor]

15 hours ago, v1ld said:

How about Near Infinity, @subtledoctor?   Is save editing with NI also of concern for how this mod works?

Nope, no concerns there, Near Infinity works great.

[v1ld]

Noticing one oddity:  When a druid gets new caster level, their new level's spell list will be empty unless you activate "Change Prepared Spell" right before you level. 

Jaheira at the beginning of BG2 is a level 4 Druid, if I level her up to level 5 right away her spellbook's level 5 will only contain her special Harper's Call spell and none of the other level 5 druid spells.  Get the same result with a player druid - no level 5 spells at all.

If I first use Change Prepared Spells and then immediately level up without resting, the druid gets all of their spell list as expected.

All other classes are working as expected, this only happens with druids.  The workaround is fine for me, just thought I'd report it.

[v1ld]

The Druid spell table is replaced with the Cleric spell table in this mod (a good idea) but the vanilla Druid leveling curve is left in place.  In Vanilla there's a huge jump in XP required to get to level 15 (because there used to be only one arch druid in the old days, I'm told), so level 15 also gave you a big jump in spells to compensate.

With only this mod you still have the very slow level 15 progression, but you get a normal level's worth of spell progression which is quite lackluster given how much xp was needed.  Maybe consider also replacing the Druid xp leveling curve with the Cleric one as in, say, Tweaks Anthology?

~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2292 // Alter Druid Spell and Level Progression Tables -> Use cleric level progression changes with normal druid spell table: v16

I've installed this before this mod and it's working well together.

Another nice option to have would be a casting table corresponding to the un-nerfed Bard table found in a number of mods (RR, Tweaks, IWDification).  That table goes to level 8 instead of 6 as in vanilla.  I made one for myself based on your existing d5cstbrd.2da, which you can find here: https://gist.github.com/v1ld/8a3ab40e8f67c0f598cd269c15122946.  Installing the modified Bard table from Tweaks before 5E works well.

~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2270 // Alter Bard Spell Progression Table -> Un-nerfed table [Blucher]: v16

Would be good if both changes were a selectable option at install time.  I only noticed the druid change when looking at the tables in the mod.

The mod is working very well, @subtledoctor.  Appreciate the effort you put into these mods, both design and implementation.  Cheers.

[mickabouille]

7 minutes ago, v1ld said:

I've installed this before this mod and it's working well together.

I did too, Yes it works.

So I'm not sure _this_ mod needs to duplicate the same function.

[v1ld]

4 minutes ago, mickabouille said:

I did too, Yes it works.

So I'm not sure _this_ mod needs to duplicate the same function.

Sure, maybe just an option to use the new Druid table or a heads up in the docs that the Druid spell table is being changed?  It's a bit of a surprise otherwise, one you may want to compensate for as we have done.

[v1ld]

@subtledoctor Rangers and Paladins seem to have their spellcasting disabled by this mod.  When I level a Ranger or Paladin to 9, the spell icon is lit up as usual, then goes dark as usual as this mod does it processing - but it never comes back.  Save/reload leaves that icon blank.  I've tried this with SCS v34 and v35, including several combinations of the spell tweaks in the latter - they all behave the same.

I notice the d5cstpal.2da and d5cstran.2da files give casts to both classes well before they actually receives spells, which is level 8 ranger, 9 paladin by default - while those files give them casts at level 2 or 3 or some other similar low level.  So I tried syncing up the 2 by using new spell tables from cdtweaks and using those tables for the cast tables - just to test and see if this is the cause of the problem.  That does not help either, sad to say.

Also tried leveling up with and without Change Spells active, makes no difference to this behavior.

Mod is otherwise working great.

Here's my last attempt with just IWDification and SCS v34.

Spoiler

// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
~DRAGONSPEAR_UI++/DRAGONSPEAR_UI++.TP2~ #0 #1 // Install SoD GUI Overhaul Core Component: 22.01.3
~DRAGONSPEAR_UI++/DRAGONSPEAR_UI++.TP2~ #0 #2 // Add Transparent Tooltip Background: 22.01.3
~DRAGONSPEAR_UI++/DRAGONSPEAR_UI++.TP2~ #0 #3 // Update several strings in Dialog.tlk: 22.01.3
~DRAGONSPEAR_UI++/DRAGONSPEAR_UI++.TP2~ #0 #9 // Select Number of Quicksave Slots -> 6: 22.01.3
~DRAGONSPEAR_UI++/DRAGONSPEAR_UI++.TP2~ #0 #10 // Update portrait Picker: 22.01.3
~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #0 // Rewritten Final Chapter of Throne of Bhaal: 2.0.26
~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #10 // Balthazar can be redeemed: 2.0.26
~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #20 // Improved Sarevok-Player Interactions: 2.0.26
~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #30 // Improved Imoen-Player Interactions in Throne of Bhaal: 2.0.26
~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #40 // Restored Bhaalspawn Powers: 2.0.26
~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #50 // Improved Slayer Transformation: 2.0.26
~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #60 // Expanded Epilogues for Bioware NPCs -> David Gaider's expanded epilogues for Bioware NPCs: 2.0.26
~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #2300 // Sharper portraits of Abazigal and Gromnir for the Enhanced Edition, by DavidW: 2.0.26
~ASCENSION/ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #2400 // Slightly improved cutscenes, by DavidW: 2.0.26
~IWDIFICATION/SETUP-IWDIFICATION.TP2~ #0 #30 // IWD Arcane Spell Pack: v5
~IWDIFICATION/SETUP-IWDIFICATION.TP2~ #0 #40 // IWD Divine Spell Pack: v5
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2270 // Alter Bard Spell Progression Table -> Un-nerfed table [Blucher]: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2292 // Alter Druid Spell and Level Progression Tables -> Use cleric level progression changes with normal druid spell table: v16
~5E_SPELLCASTING/5E_SPELLCASTING.TP2~ #0 #100 // Change ALL Casters to 5E Spellcasting: 2.2
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #60 // Weapon Animation Tweaks: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #110 // Icon Improvements: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #130 // Force All Dialogue to Pause Game: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #140 // Fix Boo's Squeak: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #160 // Make Magic Shields Glow [plainab/grogerson]: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #171 // Unique Icons [Lava] -> Replace all icons: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #182 // Unique Containers [Miloch] -> Unique icons and names: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3151 // Remove Annoying Visual Effects from Equipped Items -> Remove all of the above: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2010 // Separate Resist Fire/Cold Icon into Separate Icons [Angel]: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1010 // More Interjections: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1020 // Alter HP Triggers for NPC Wounded Dialogues: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1040 // Improved Athkatlan City Guard: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1070 // Improved Multi-Player Kick-Out Dialogues: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1080 // Add Bags of Holding: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1101 // Do Not Reveal City Maps When Entering Area: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1120 // Stores Sell Higher Stacks of Items: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1160 // Multiple Strongholds [Sabre, Baldurdash, Weimer] -> No restrictions: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1180 // Female Edwina [Davide Carte, Wendy Yung, Weimer]: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1230 // Allow Cespenar to Use Cromwell Recipes: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2540 // Speed Up de'Arnise Keep Stronghold Quests: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2999 // Max HP at Level One: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3000 // Higher HP on Level Up -> Maximum: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3020 // Identify All Items: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3031 // Easy Spell Learning -> 100% learn spells and no maximum cap: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3040 // Make Bags of Holding Bottomless: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3050 // Remove Fatigue from Restoration Spells: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3083 // Increase Ammo Stack Size -> Stacks of 120: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3093 // Increase Jewelry, Gem, and Miscellaneous Item Stacks -> Stacks of 120: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3103 // Increase Potion Stacking -> Stacks of 120: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3113 // Increase Scroll Stacking -> Stacks of 120: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3121 // Happy Patch - Alter How Party NPCs Complain About Reputation -> NPCs can be angry about reputation but never leave [Salk]: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3123 // NPCs Don't Fight: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3125 // Neutral Characters Make Happy Comments at Mid-Range Reputation [Luiz]: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3170 // No Drow Avatars On Party In Underdark [Weimer]: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3200 // Sellable Items [icelus]: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3294 // Personalize Automatic Save Names -> Use scheme: 000000000-[Protagonist]-Save-Name: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3300 // Death Cam: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3330 // Make Party Members Less Likely to Die Irreversibly: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3343 // Increase Party Movement Speed and/or Casting Speed Outside of Combat [argent77] -> Movement speed by 50 percent and casting speed: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3358 // Create Interval Saves [argent77] -> Customize (via cdtweaks.txt): v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4010 // Improved Fate Spirit Summoning: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4050 // Change Jaheira to Neutral Good Alignment: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4100 // Change Korgan to Neutral Evil Alignment: v16
~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4150 // Move Boo Into Minsc's Pack: v16
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #3505 // Wider selection of random scrolls: 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #3540 // Reduce the power of Inquisitors' Dispel Magic -> Inquisitors dispel at 1.5 x their level (not twice their level): 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #3551 // Increase the power of Cure Wounds and Cause Wounds spells to the level found in 3rd Edition D&D -> Spells heal or inflict the maximum amount of damage in this range: 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #3580 // Restoration and Lesser Restoration spells heal ability-score damage: 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4000 // Faster Bears: 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4030 // Improved shapeshifting: 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4050 // Decrease the rate at which reputation improves -> Reputation increases at about 2/3 the normal rate: 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4115 // Thieves assign skill points in multiples of five: 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5900 // Initialise AI components (required for all tactical and AI components): 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6000 // Smarter general AI: 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6010 // Better calls for help: 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6030 // Smarter Mages: 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6040 // Smarter Priests: 34.3
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6100 // Potions for NPCs: 34.3

 

[subtledoctor]

I have updated the mod to version 2.5. This addresses several issues:

On 11/28/2023 at 10:57 PM, v1ld said:

Noticing one oddity:  When a druid gets new caster level, their new level's spell list will be empty unless you activate "Change Prepared Spell" right before you level.

This is a long-standing issue; it was addressed but it seems the solution was imperfect. I have rewritten the code that handles this in v2.5. It appears to be working now, for all classes.

On 11/29/2023 at 9:34 AM, v1ld said:

The Druid spell table is replaced with the Cleric spell table in this mod (a good idea) but the vanilla Druid leveling curve is left in place

Version 2.5 now includes a settings.ini file that allows you to keep the vanilla druid spell table. I'm not going to change the XP table in this mod, there are already plenty of other ways to change it.

On 12/1/2023 at 10:01 AM, v1ld said:

I notice the d5cstpal.2da and d5cstran.2da files give casts to both classes well before they actually receives spells

In version 2.5, the mod now defaults to using the base game's MXSPLWIZ.2da/MXSPLPRS.2da/MXSPLDRU.2da etc. tables for both memorization and casting slots. So ranger and paladin memorization and casting should sync up by default. And you can amend the tables beforehand, by hand or via another mod, to tweak things to your liking.

Note, however, that the vanilla cleric and druid tables, if converted to both memorization and casting slots, would give you an extremely large amount of spells and effectively nerf shamans in a major way. So the mod defaults to reducing the cleric table to 5 slots per level, and defaults to having druids use the cleric table. You can change these in the settings.ini file before installing.

On 12/1/2023 at 10:01 AM, v1ld said:

Rangers and Paladins seem to have their spellcasting disabled by this mod.  When I level a Ranger or Paladin to 9, the spell icon is lit up as usual, then goes dark as usual as this mod does it processing - but it never comes back

I didn't have a chance to test before updating, but I just tested a ranger and paladin with a default install of version 2.5, and they seem to cast spells just fine. So hopefully this is no longer a problem for you.

Finally, version 2.5 has provisional support for new spells added by DavidW's newer mods such as Talents of Faerun.

[mickabouille]

3 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Finally, version 2.5 has provisional support for new spells added by DavidW's newer mods such as Talents of Faerun.

For me it's unexplored territory as far as "installation order" is concerned (but I'm sure many already deduced how all of this should work out)

[subtledoctor]

6 hours ago, mickabouille said:

For me it's unexplored territory as far as "installation order" is concerned (but I'm sure many already deduced how all of this should work out)

Heh, yeah. As I was glancing at the ToF forum for some reason I reflected a bit on stuff I have worked on:

• Revisions to ability scores
• A feat system
• Revisions to the proficiency system
• A divine sphere system
• Spontaneous spellcasting for clerics
• New classes
• New kits
• Revisions to the original kits
• Multiclass kits
• Revisions to arcane metamagic abilities
• Revisions to the arcane magic duel system
• Miscellaneous spell tweaks
• Miscellaneous item tweaks

...Like, if you took all my mods and smushed them together into one single mod, it would look a lot like ToF, with some bits of SCS added in 

So, thinking of it that way, my sense is that ToF should be installed right about where I install a bunch of my mods: after all other kits, before CDTweaks/SCS.** In this case, I would install 5E Casting right after ToF. Or maybe even something like ToF-->CDTweaks-->5E Casting

** I have no idea what ToF looks like structurally or whether it will need to be broken up in a big install. I don't think DavidW really accounts for that kind of thing. From what i can glean of his personal practices, my guess is that his install order probably looks something like:

1. Ascension
2. Wheels of Prophecy
3. Talents of Faerun
4. SCS

When you think about it, that doesn't create any cause to worry about install order at all. It is very simple and obvious.

Edited December 14, 2023 by subtledoctor

[v1ld]

17 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

I have updated the mod to version 2.5. This addresses several issues:

Thanks for the (large) update - I was going to comment on each of your changes, but I think I can just say: they all make sense, thank you very much!

Would also like to say that I very much appreciate how responsive you are in supporting your (large) suite of mods, in addition to creating and releasing them.  I've released mods for other games and appreciate just how much extra effort it is to package something for other's use as compared to modding one's own game.  So: thank you!

 

[v1ld]

@subtledoctor I don't know how you create your github releases, but this is the setup I use for my mods where creating a tag will automatically create a zipfile, excluding files as needed, and then upload it to the releases page.  It'll use the last commit as the message for the release.

https://github.com/v1ld/cp2077-auto-unequip-weapon-mods-and-attachments/blob/master/.github/workflows/zip-release.yml

It's quite convenient once you set it up.  Change ARCHIVE_NAME and the tags regexp to suit your prefs, of course.

So the Releases page has one release per tag: https://github.com/v1ld/cp2077-auto-unequip-weapon-mods-and-attachments/releases

Just pointing out the GitHub Actions if you're not already using it - you may be!  If so, please ignore.  I just find it a nice time saver.

Edited December 15, 2023 by v1ld

[v1ld]

Been testing 2.5.1.  The good news is that every class I looked at works fine if custom_casting_tables is left at 0, including the pesky Ranger and Paladin.  They seem to be getting the expected number of casts too (i.e., casts == number of slots).

One new issue: the priest spell book doesn't display memorized spells once you've rested.  It shows the normal interface when choosing spells, but not after resting.  Spells show up in the casting bar with the right amounts, however.  Arcane casters seem to be fine, mages anyway.

 The Paladin and Ranger issue continues to exist if custom_casting_tables is set to 1.  I do have more info, though:  they both still exhibit the behavior I described earlier at level 9 where they show up with the right spell list with vanilla casts, but once 5E initializes, the spell icon goes blank again.  But if I go up to level 11, 5E does initialize properly for both classes, but they show only level 1 spells at 1 cast total.  I.e., it seems to be behaving like a level 9 or 10 character's casts and spell slots.  So if you're supposed to have say 2 level 1 slots and 1 level 2 slots, it shows up as 2 level 1 slot.  The similar off by 1 or off by 2 behavior persists as I add levels.

It feels like the code is interpreting the paladin/ranger tables incorrectly when custom_casting_tables=1.

I'm happy to use custom_casting_tables=0 and the priest book isn't a problem in that I don't go look at it once I've selected the load out.

Edited December 15, 2023 by v1ld

[DavidW]

On 12/14/2023 at 11:26 AM, subtledoctor said:

So, thinking of it that way, my sense is that ToF should be installed right about where I install a bunch of my mods: after all other kits, before CDTweaks/SCS.**

That sounds about right; the only caveat is that the way ToF messes with the UI means installing some things on top of it -new kits, for instance - is likely to break things.

[Adamvs_Maximvs]

Playing with this mod, Faiths and powers as well as the Tweak pack that makes Khalid a Fighter/Mage in BG1 (EET).

 

For some reason Khalid has the ability "Change prepared spells" but when I add spells to his memorized slots in his spell book after using it and long rest, the cast icon is still greyed out and he can't cast anything. Am I missing something obvious? I've tried unequipping everything but that didn't do it, not sure if it's a bug, or a conflict with him being multiclass. Any possible suggestions?

[subtledoctor]

Is the game paused? You need to let the game clock run for a couple seconds after waking up, for the spells to be prepared. 

Alternatively… I’m not sure what that other mod does to make him a F/M. Is this right after recruiting him? You might need to level him up for everything to be properly aligned in his new class.