What stats in the CRE file are affected by 2das?

[Awachi]

Is the base thac0 given fixed or is it further modified by high STR/DEX? 

Does high CON add more hps than listed? 

Is the listed AC affected by DEX? 

Does the game care about knowing or memorizing too many spells for the level listed? Does anything weird happen if a CRE has wizard spells memorized (and scripted to use) even if it's not a caster class? 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Awachi

[jmerry]

THAC0, HP, and AC listed in the creature file are the base values. They can be further modified by equipment, stat bonuses, and effects. Stat bonuses are calculated during gameplay using the 2da files, so that changing stats immediately affects things. And of course, some situations can change those. Stealth attacks negate the Dex modifier to AC, for example. 

The only thing that class matters for in regard to a creature casting spells is caster level. For example, planetars are level 25 mages with both mage and cleric spells memorized. They cast their mage spells (such as Flame Arrow) at level 25 and their cleric spells (such as Dispel Magic) at level 1.

Spell memorization limits do matter. At least for party members, anyway; if you have more spells memorized than slots at that level, some of them will be "forgotten" to drop you back down to the limit. It may not for non-party NPCs; they certainly don't care about the 2da files listing how many spells they "should" have.

[Awachi]

Cool, thanks. 

[Jarno Mikkola]

2 hours ago, jmerry said:

Stat bonuses are calculated during gameplay using the 2da files, so that changing stats immediately affects things.

Well, there's a thing here that needs to be said. The stat bonuses are indeed added in game play, but the default stats only effect creatures at their level up. So Thac0 for example is first effected by any level up, this will set the base to that levels featured amount, and other creatures that don't level up use their .cre files set stat, then the stat(STR) bonuses are added to that and the weapon stats(+x). And there the lower is always better, but the "bonuses" are usually negative values.

[Awachi]

Ok, so the things otherwise set by a 2da (thac0, saves) are valid in the CRE until it levels up. However, those things are still affected by other interactions with 2das (STR modifying the thac0, DEX modifying the AC) and equipment. 

[subtledoctor]

12 minutes ago, Awachi said:

Ok, so the things otherwise set by a 2da (thac0, saves) are valid in the CRE until it levels up.

And I believe when you level up the game modifies the .CRE file field to match the new value. You can see this in .CRE files inside a savegame.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Exactly. So any non party member character is unaffected by the Thac0.2da file changes, no matter what you do to it. And usually all the creatures have a neutral stat lines aka set STR to 9, unless it's in particularly desided to not have that but other stat... so most of them will be likely to never be affected by other table changes. There are some... but most of those are mistakes. Why, well a dragon that has -10 Thac0 already probably should NOT also have high STR ... just saying. Not that it effects anything...

[Awachi]

Well since the answer is done, how about a speculation:

Can a non-party NPC level up if given xp? Is this a gui-only operation? 

[Jarno Mikkola]

20 minutes ago, Awachi said:

Can a non-party NPC level up if given xp? Is this a gui-only operation? 

They kinda can, but why would they ? As in, this action is player only action, not a "Graphical User Interface-only operation".

[jmerry]

And indeed, non-party NPCs have all sorts of weird things in their creature files that would cause issues if they tried to level up. The various "monster" classes don't have associated 2das, so trying to level up a creature with one of those would cause a crash. Or there's the fact that Yaga-Shura is a dwarf; if he leveled up, his saves would instantly get a lot better. But his THAC0 would get worse.

[Awachi]

I sense an opportunity for yet another 4th wall breaking mod.

[polytope]

On 2/11/2022 at 6:09 AM, Awachi said:

Is the base thac0 given fixed or is it further modified by high STR/DEX? 

Does high CON add more hps than listed? 

Is the listed AC affected by DEX?

All creatures receive the 2DA bonuses to strength and dex, even if they aren't warrior classes who would be entitled to an exceptional strength roll they still get the benefits if they have 18 and a non zero number in the field.

Only creatures with classes that a player can choose receive constitution bonuses to hp, +7/hit die maximum (for 24+ constitution) if fighter/ranger/paladin, +2 max if not.

On 2/11/2022 at 6:09 AM, Awachi said:

Does the game care about knowing or memorizing too many spells for the level listed? Does anything weird happen if a CRE has wizard spells memorized (and scripted to use) even if it's not a caster class? 

If the creature doesn't have a caster class, it's spells will all be cast as if first level, or the minimum required to cast the spell, i.e. always a 5d6 Fireball, always a single Magic Missile.

Make sure the spells are assigned correctly, or you will get a CTD when the creature tries to cast for instance Stoneskin if it had it memorized as a first rather than fourth tier spell.