Item duplication in BG/BG2

[DavidW]

There are fewer reused unique items in BGEE and BG2EE than meet the eye (many are undroppable, or copies where you can only see one on a given playthrough), but there are still some. In almost all cases, the reason is obvious: the item has a generic name (Bracers of Defense AC 6, Ring of Protection +2, Scimitar +2, etc) even though the description makes it unique, and it's easy to see how developers in a hurry gave an apparently-generic item to a monster and forgot that it wasn't generic after all. (It's notable that duplicates normally occur off the critical path, or in stores, or in expansions.) The dialog.tlk changes made by BGEE and BG2EE make this less obvious (for instance, the unique Bracers of Defense AC 6 are now called 'Bracers to the Death') but those changes happened quite late in the development cycle. (I also think they're ill-judged, but that's another matter.)

I think it is pretty clear that developer intent was not to have duplicates and so, if possible, we should fix this.

I propose that in general the simplest plan is to replace most occurrences of a unique item with a generic version. Normally that would require new description text, which is generally a no-no in a fixpack, but fortunately most of the items already have a generic version either in oBG2 or in Siege of Dragonspear, so it's easy enough to produce it. There is a question as to how to allocate the actual unique item, but usually it's fairly clear.

In the next few posts I'll list the various duplicates in BG1 and BG2, along with some edge cases and some problems I'm not sure how to resolve.
 

[DavidW]

BG1 unique items readily handled.

Amulet of Protection +1 'The Protector' (amul14). Carried by Nadine (questgiver), who actively gives it to you to hand to her son, and Ragefast (questgiver), who just has it as protective bling. Found loose in ar0169 (a generic home). Sold in Feldepost's Inn, the Elfsong Tavern, and Zordral's tent.

Proposal: Nadine is easily the most significant/evocative.

Boots of speed, 'the paws of the cheetah' (boot01). Drasus has them; so (due to a typo correction) does Lothander.

Proposal: Drasus is the iconic possessor; in oBG1 Lothander doesn't even have them.

Girdle of bluntness, 'Destroyer of the Hills' (belt03). Krumm the thug has it, but so do two stores: STO1117 (generic potion store) and STO4907 (Zordral's store)

Proposal: Krumm is the iconic case

Helm of Glory, 'Helm of the Noble' (helm03). Carried by Jardak, but can also be stolen from the noncombatant version of Pride in Durlag's tower.

Proposal: obvs Pride's version should be unstealable.

Ring of Fire Resistance, 'Batalista's Passport' (ring02). Dropped in the Candlekeep catacombs, but also in the Gibberling Mountains

Proposal: the critical-path (Candlekeep) location is preferable. Highly plausible case made in the comments that the mountains location is preferable.

Ring of Free Action, 'Edventar's Gift' (ring09). Alai has it; so does Dushai, a gnomish questgiver

Proposal: Obviously Alai is more significant.

Plate mail +1, 'Fallorian's Plate' (plat02). Genthore has it; so does Simmeon, a blackguard connected to Dorn.

Proposal: Genthore is the original possessor; Simmeon got it by accident.

Scimitar +2, 'Rashad's Talon'. Found in Durlag's tower, but duplicated by Beamdog to a newly-added loot pile in the Cloakwood.

Proposal: obviously the Durlag's tower one is canonical.

[DavidW]

BG2 items readily handled

Ring of Fire Resistance, 'Batalista's Passport' (ring02): dropped in SoA, but sold by Lazarus Librarus in ToB. 
Proposal: Take the SoA drop as canon.

Battleaxe +2 (ax1h03): has a generic description in oBG2, and also a generic clone, ax1h11. Its oBG1 unique description is restored in BG2EE without recognizing that it's multiply-used. It appears once in SoA and is carried by various mooks in ToB.

Proposal: the ToB mooks clearly should get the generic one. 

Bracers of Defense AC 6, 'Bracers to the Death' (brac03): there are more than a dozen of these in BG2, always given as fairly generic bling. 

Proposal: I think here it makes sense just to make the original one generic (its unique description is just inherited from BG1). It's easy to adapt it from the AC6 description. (Using the SoD generic version is not ideal as it has a different style of description from the AC7 and AC8 bracers in BG2.)

Girdle of Bluntness, 'Destroyer of the Hills' (belt03): appears in Irenicus's dungeon, but also cloned in two oBG2 stores (and an EE store). 

Proposal: Fairly clearly the dungeon one is iconic.

Girdle of Piercing, 'Elves' Bane' (belt04): this is unique in oBG2, but EE clones it. 

Proposal: Make the cloned item generic.

Dagger +2, 'Heart of the Golem'. This has a generic copy (dagg15) in oBG2, but it gets duplicated a few times anyway: Arkanis Gath has a copy, so does a random mercenary, so does Vaelasa the dryad. And EE adds a copy to a store.

Proposal: Vaelasa is probably the most critical-path person, sho she can get the unique version.

Heartseeker+3 (bow10). You can get one as loot in Firkraag's lair, but Ribald also sells one. 

Proposal: Make the lair one canonical and swap an ordinary bow+3 into Ribald's store.

Full Plate +1, 'Plate of the Dark' (plat05). This is a unique BG1 item that gets a generic description in oBG2 and has its unique name and description restored in the EE. It's not used at all in oSoA, but gets given to a couple of lizard men and a drow in ToB, and is handed to a couple of EE creatures.

Proposal: I don't know what BD had in mind here, but on aesthetic grounds it should probably stay with the drow (it's darker-colored).

Scimitar +2, 'Rashad's Talon' (sw1h23). It appears only once in oBG2, but BD clones it when they clone a genie. 

Proposal: Clearly shift the EE genie one to a generic weapon.

Halberd +2, 'Suryis's Blade' (halb03). Unique item importable from BG1; also sold by Ribald, and cloned to a creature by BD. 

Proposal: Make the BG2 versions generic. Looks like EE already handles this through scripting.

Helm of Infravision, 'The Eyes of Truth' (helm05). Unique in oBG2, but Beamdog clones it twice. 

Proposal: Given that helms of infravision are largely useless, I think the easiest solution is to make their helms undroppable

Dagger +2, longtooth: 'grave binder' (dagg04). Unique in oBG2 (only available via import) but cloned to an EE store. 

Proposal: Check for import and manually remove from store if imported. Looks like EE already does this.

Ring of Protection +2, 'the guard's ring' (RING07). Given to Aran Linvail; also given as loot in various places; also held by the Hell Dragon. 

Proposal: This one I think is best just made generic.

Boots of Speed, 'The Paws of the Cheetah' (boot01). Classic BG1 loot item. In SoA, carried by Renal and by pbhunt05', one of the bard-quest hunters. Several locations in ToB.

Proposal: I think the reasonable interpretation is that this is supposed to be generic throughout.

Amulet of Protection +1, 'The Protector' (amul14). This is very widely used and clearly is supposed to be non-unique.

Proposal: make it non-unique.

Long Sword +2, 'Varscona' (sw1h06): imported from BG1, but also sold by Ribald.

Proposal: Here I think we should explicitly check for import and remove it if imported. Looks like this has already been done.

Scimitar +3, 'Water's Edge' (sw1h52). Unique in oSOA but present all over ToB and EE. Presumably the generic title made people think it wasn't unique. SW1H76 is a truly-generic substitute.

Proposal: give all ToB/EE creatures the generic version.

Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise (brac09) Unique in oBG2 but added to a store in EE. 

Proposal: The store gets the generic.

[DavidW]

Edge cases (BG1)

Sling of unerring accuracy (weird BD item that gives +2 to hit but +0 damage). Black Lily sells one, but it's also randomly upstairs in the Splurging Sturgeon.

Proposal: BL's is the primary one. Replace the other with ordinary sling +1.

Issue: the ordinary sling+1 is a mechanically different item.

[DavidW]

Edge cases (BG2)

War hammer +2, 'Ashideena'. (HAMM03) Can be imported from BG1 but is also found in AR0204 in a loot box. 

Proposal: Replace the latter with a regular warhammer +2.Looks as if EE has already handled this.

Issue: a regular warhammer +2 lacks Ashideena's +1 electrical damage.

Bala's Axe, 'wizard slayer'. Imported but also available as a drop in ar0413. Oddly, this is an EE addition. 

Proposal: I think just reverting it is the way to go.Again, looks like EE has handled this already.

Issue: that removes an item from ar0413 loot that the BD developers clearly wanted to add.

[DavidW]

Cases I can't solve (BG1)

Sword +1, +3 vs undead, 'Harrower'. Added by BGEE. Two copies: one is wielded by Elkart (in Skie's story) and one is randomly stuffed into the belt of Zeela the amazon cleric, who can't use it. No generic alternative.

Necklace of Missiles (amul01). Multiple copies and no generic version.

Ring of Folly (ring23). Likewise.
 

[DavidW]

Cases I can't solve (BG2)

Necklace of Missiles (amul01). Multiple copies and no generic version.

Helm of Defense (helm04). a unique item in oBG1, but it appears twice (in fairly generic places) in BG2 and again in a store added in EE. No generic copy.

Ring of Regeneration. Unique in oBG2, cloned by BD. No generic.
Ring of Invisibility, 'Sandthief's Ring (ring05). Cattie-Brie has it, so does the Crooked Crane lich, so does a patsy in ToB. And BD puts it into a store. My inclination is to remove all but the Grave Lich's copy.
Boots of Grounding, 'Talos' Gift' (boot05): sold by the wandering priest of Tempus in the fighter stronghold quest and by the temple of Lathander. No generic.

 

[DavidW]

I have code that implements the edge cases and the easy cases; uploading shortly.

[DavidW]

OK, uploaded.

[jmerry]

On the BG2EE importables: the copies out in the world are already replaced by generics if you import them - look at area scripts. Except for the "cloned to a creature" instances. So no, you don't need to do anything about that copy of Ashideena down below the Temple District. Though it's a bit weird that there are two different unique +2 hammers with +1 electric damage - Ribald also sells "Borok's Fist".

[Awachi]

19 minutes ago, DavidW said:

Sword +1, +3 vs undead, 'Harrower'. Added by BGEE. Two copies: one is wielded by Elkart (in Skie's story) and one is randomly stuffed into the belt of Zeela the amazon cleric, who can't use it. No generic alternative.

Further, as implemented by BD, uses the generic long sword +1 bam, thus increasing the suckitude.  No reason for Zeela to have it at all.

[Sam.]

49 minutes ago, DavidW said:

Ring of Fire Resistance, 'Batalista's Passport' (ring02). Dropped in the Candlekeep catacombs, but also in the Gibberling Mountains

Proposal: the critical-path (Candlekeep) location is preferable.

On this one I disagree.  It is general opinion (if not fact) that the later chapters of oBG1 were made in a bit of a rush.  My belief is that the Ring of Fire Resistance was purposefully and thoughtfully put in that hidden crack (before the container highlighting button was added to the engine) in the Gibberling Mountains first, and was added to the Candlekeep catacombs (perhaps without considering that the item should have been unique) well after the fact.  Moreover, that ring is one of the more defining features of that area, and I believe taking it away would significantly impact the early game, IMO in a negative manor.

 

A bit off point, but I have never personally been bothered by finding multiple copies of fairly generic but technically "unique" items in a playthrough.  With that being said, I respect that some people feel strongly to the contrary.

[Guest Morgoth]

1 hour ago, Sam. said:

On this one I disagree.  It is general opinion (if not fact) that the later chapters of oBG1 were made in a bit of a rush.  My belief is that the Ring of Fire Resistance was purposefully and thoughtfully put in that hidden crack (before the container highlighting button was added to the engine) in the Gibberling Mountains first, and was added to the Candlekeep catacombs (perhaps without considering that the item should have been unique) well after the fact.  Moreover, that ring is one of the more defining features of that area, and I believe taking it away would significantly impact the early game, IMO in a negative manor.

 

A bit off point, but I have never personally been bothered by finding multiple copies of fairly generic but technically "unique" items in a playthrough.  With that being said, I respect that some people feel strongly to the contrary.

+1

[CamDawg]

This was something we went back and forth about for BG2FP and, in the end, basically decided if an item was 'unique' based on how it was placed in game.

For the uniques which don't have a clear alternative description, we can always fudge them the way the Ring of Princes does (emphasis mine):

Quote

This ring and several of its type were originally crafted to protect the sons of King Castter De'wess, though who uttered the enchantment is unknown. History records that the rings remained within that family for at least thirteen generations, though they were all apparently lost within the space of one. Enmity between the king and the family of the creator may be to blame.

So e.g. for the One Gift Lost, it could go from

Quote

Necklace of Missiles: The One Gift Lost
The naming of this necklace originates from its only owner, Ikaida Mourneve, who quested to regain his kidnapped daughter. Not many would help the determined father, but a kind and generous mage bestowed this item on him to aid his cause. Alas, the necklace was lost when Ikaida dropped it into the Immerflow River while fending off bandits upon a suspension bridge. Fortunately, it is rumored that the item was not needed to reunite the family once again.

to something like

Quote

Necklace of Missiles: The One Gift Lost
The naming of this necklace and several of its type originates from its owner, Ikaida Mourneve, who quested to regain his kidnapped daughter. Not many would help the determined father, but a kind and generous mage bestowed this item on him to aid his cause. Alas, the necklace was lost when Ikaida dropped it into the Immerflow River while fending off bandits upon a suspension bridge. Fortunately, it is rumored that the item was not needed to reunite the family once again.

[suy]

Excuse my most likely mistake, but can I ask how this is supposed to work in the current implementation? I've been looking at the code to try to better understand what the replacement does (for example, of the Amulet of Protection +1), and I could not find the item that is supposed to be replaced with. In vanilla BG1EE and BG2EE I can't find bdamul24.itm. I find the amul14.itm to be what I was expecting, but I can't find the one is replaced with. Unless...

COPY_EXISTING "bdamul24.itm" "override/amul14.itm"

Unless this happens to be in the wrong order? If amul14.itm is the right item, and gets copied to bdamul24.itm in override, then the description gets fixed later to be a generic +1 protective item without a unique name.

But either I'm not understanding the WeiDU code, or something else (most likely my fault).