Large Modded EET Install - Multikit Options

[Jumbletuff]

Hey all, 

Recently completed a large (130+) modded install of BG EET and ran through a few hours of it with no real issues (so far). Haven't committed on what to play yet for the full run and I was wondering if it'd even be worth considering a multikit installation from a feasibility/compatibility standpoint given what I've installed (it's conceptually fun to me to play a Fighter/Mage/Psion). Below is the list of mods I believe impact kits, multkits, etc as well as my latest Weidu just in case I missed something. 

Spoiler

~UB\SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #22 // Justifier Kit: v28
~UB\SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #23 // Feralan Kit: v28
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #1003 // Artisan's Kitpack: Berserker Overhaul: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #1006 // Artisan's Kitpack: Wizard Slayer Overhaul: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #1004 // Artisan's Kitpack: Kensai Overhaul: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #1005 // Artisan's Kitpack: Barbarian Overhaul: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #1007 // Artisan's Kitpack: Dwarven Defender Overhaul + Vanguard Fighter Kit: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #1000 // Artisan's Kitpack: Arcane Archer Fighter Kit: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #1008 // Artisan's Kitpack: Siegemaster Fighter Kit: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #1009 // Artisan's Kitpack: Dreadnought Fighter Kit: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #1100 // Artisan's Kitpack: Fighter Overhaul: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #2000 // Artisan's Kitpack: Ranger Overhaul: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #2010 // Artisan's Kitpack: Archer Overhaul: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #2011 // Artisan's Kitpack: Stalker Overhaul: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #2012 // Artisan's Kitpack: Beast Master Overhaul: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #2002 // Artisan's Kitpack: Dark Hunter Ranger Kit: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #3000 // Artisan's Kitpack: Paladin Overhaul: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #3010 // Artisan's Kitpack: Cavalier Overhaul: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #3003 // Artisan's Kitpack: Inquisitor Overhaul: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #3011 // Artisan's Kitpack: Undead Hunter Overhaul: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #3004 // Artisan's Kitpack: Blackguard Overhaul: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #3002 // Artisan's Kitpack: Mystic Fire Paladin Kit: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #3005 // Artisan's Kitpack: Martyr Paladin Kit: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #7006 // Artisan's Kitpack: Swashbuckler Overhaul: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #7002 // Artisan's Kitpack: Magekiller Thief Kit: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #8001 // Artisan's Kitpack: Pale Master Sorcerer Kit: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #8002 // Artisan's Kitpack: 3e-accurate Dragon Disciple -> Original Stat Bonuses: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #10002 // Artisan's Kitpack: Brawler Kit: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #10001 // Artisan's Kitpack: Monk Revisions: 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #20000 // Artisan's Kitpack: Eldritch Knight (Fighter / Mage Kit): 3.3
~ARTISANSKITPACK\ARTISANSKITPACK.TP2~ #0 #20001 // Artisan's Kitpack: Arcane Trickster (Mage / Thief Kit): 3.3
~SPIRITWALKER\SETUP-SPIRITWALKER.TP2~ #0 #0 // Spiritwalker Shaman Kit: 1.3
~SHURININJA\SHURININJA.TP2~ #0 #10 // Shuri Ninja Kit -> Shuri Ninja Kit (legacy): 2.0.0
~A7-CUSTOMKITS\A7-CUSTOMKITS.TP2~ #0 #1 // Spellsword Kit -> Original version: v1.6
~MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK\MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK.TP2~ #0 #100 // Install Battle Master Kit: v2.0
~MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK\MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK.TP2~ #0 #130 // Install Dragoon Kit: v2.0
~MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK\MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK.TP2~ #0 #110 // Install Psi Warrior Kit: v2.0
~MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK\MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK.TP2~ #0 #120 // Install Shield Breaker Kit: v2.0
~MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK\MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK.TP2~ #0 #210 // Install Champion of the Wild Kit: v2.0
~MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK\MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK.TP2~ #0 #300 // Install Champion of the Silver Flame: v2.0
~MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK\MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK.TP2~ #0 #310 // Install Templar Kit: v2.0
~MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK\MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK.TP2~ #0 #600 // Archmage Prestige Kit: v2.0
~MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK\MORPHEUS562-S-KITPACK.TP2~ #0 #900 // Install Eldritch Scion Kit: v2.0
~DIVINE_REMIX\SETUP-DIVINE_REMIX.TP2~ #0 #103 // Install Silverstar of Selune Cleric Kit: 8.1
~DIVINE_REMIX\SETUP-DIVINE_REMIX.TP2~ #0 #106 // Install Nightcloak of Shar Cleric Kit: 8.1
~DIVINE_REMIX\SETUP-DIVINE_REMIX.TP2~ #0 #127 // Install Feywarden of Corellon Cleric Kit: 8.1
~DIVINE_REMIX\SETUP-DIVINE_REMIX.TP2~ #0 #409 // Install Forest Runner Ranger Kit: 8.1
~DIVINE_REMIX\SETUP-DIVINE_REMIX.TP2~ #0 #415 // Install Wilderness Runner Ranger Kit: 8.1
~SONG_AND_SILENCE\SETUP-SONG_AND_SILENCE.TP2~ #0 #0 // Changes to trueclass bards and thieves, and unmodded game kits (required for other components): v16
~SONG_AND_SILENCE\SETUP-SONG_AND_SILENCE.TP2~ #0 #2 // Install Acrobat bard kit: v16
~SONG_AND_SILENCE\SETUP-SONG_AND_SILENCE.TP2~ #0 #3 // Install Chorister bard kit: v16
~SONG_AND_SILENCE\SETUP-SONG_AND_SILENCE.TP2~ #0 #4 // Install Dirgesinger bard kit: v16
~SONG_AND_SILENCE\SETUP-SONG_AND_SILENCE.TP2~ #0 #5 // Install Luring Piper bard kit: v16
~SONG_AND_SILENCE\SETUP-SONG_AND_SILENCE.TP2~ #0 #6 // Install Adventurer thief kit: v16
~SONG_AND_SILENCE\SETUP-SONG_AND_SILENCE.TP2~ #0 #7 // Install Burglar thief kit: v16
~SONG_AND_SILENCE\SETUP-SONG_AND_SILENCE.TP2~ #0 #8 // Install Soulknife thief kit: v16
~SONG_AND_SILENCE\SETUP-SONG_AND_SILENCE.TP2~ #0 #9 // Install Sharpshooter thief kit: v16
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE\MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #55 // Add the Corsair (fighter kit): 5alpha13
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE\MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #60 // Add the Weaponmaster (fighter kit): 5alpha13
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE\MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #80 // Add the Tomb Tunner (fighter/thief kit): 5alpha13
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE\MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #85 // Add the Thug (fighter/thief kit): 5alpha13
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE\MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #96 // Add the Ninja (thief kit): 5alpha13
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE\MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #105 // Add the Spellfilcher (mage/thief kit): 5alpha13
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE\MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #110 // Add the Loremaster (mage/thief kit): 5alpha13
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE\MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #125 // Add the Mage Hunter (ranger kit): 5alpha13
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE\MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #450 // Add the Jongleur (bard kit): 5alpha13
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE\MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #470 // Add the Gallant (bard kit): 5alpha13
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE\MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #480 // Add the Meistersinger (bard kit): 5alpha13
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE\MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #490 // Add the Loresinger (bard kit): 5alpha13
~D2-WORKSHOPKITS\D2-WORKSHOPKITS.TP2~ #0 #9999 // The Workshop Kitpack: 2.7
~D2-WORKSHOPKITS\D2-WORKSHOPKITS.TP2~ #0 #10 // Misc item pack: 2.7
~D2-WORKSHOPKITS\D2-WORKSHOPKITS.TP2~ #0 #50 // Install if using subtledoctor's 5e casting mod: 2.7
~FAITHS_AND_POWERS\FAITHS_AND_POWERS.TP2~ #0 #24 // Choosee a Sphere System -> VPlus: traditional spell lists, kits get focus access to two FnP spheres: 0.85sd16
~FAITHS_AND_POWERS\FAITHS_AND_POWERS.TP2~ #0 #31 // Install Cleric kits: 0.85sd16
~FAITHS_AND_POWERS\FAITHS_AND_POWERS.TP2~ #0 #33 // Install Druid kits: 0.85sd16
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES\SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #710 // Add New HLAs for ALL Classes and Kits: v1.0-beta
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES\SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #720 // Update Existing HLAs: v1.0-beta
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES\SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #740 // Update Berserker's Enrage Ability: v1.0-beta
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES\SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #12 // Update Skills for Bards -> Add Lockpicking and Find/Disarm Traps: v1.0-beta
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES\SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #150 // Add New Fighter Abilities: v1.0-beta
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES\SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #143 // Allow Fighter Multiclasses to Achieve Higher than Specialized (2 pips) in Weapons Proficiencies -> Allow Fighter Multiclasses to Achieve Grand Master (5 pips) in Weapon Proficiencies: v1.0-beta
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES\SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #20 // Update Skills for Monks: v1.0-beta
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES\SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #70 // Add New Monk Abilities: v1.0-beta
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES\SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #50 // Add Detect Illusion for Wizard Slayer: v1.0-beta
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES\SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #80 // Add New Paladin Abilities: v1.0-beta
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES\SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #100 // Allow Inquisitor Kit to Cast Divine Spells: v1.0-beta
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES\SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #120 // Turn Undead Overhaul: v1.0-beta
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES\SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #160 // Adjust Cleric/Thief Actionbar: v1.0-beta
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES\SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #300 // Update Weapon Fighting Styles: v1.0-beta
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES\SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #312 // Overhaul Proficiency System - Add New Proficiencies and Weapon Styles -> Accelerated Proficiency Progression: v1.0-beta
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES\SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #400 // 2H Weapon Additional Strength Bonus: v1.0-beta
~CDTWEAKS\SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2380 // Remove Racial Restrictions for Kits: v16
~CDTWEAKS\SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3280 // Give Every Class/Kit Four Weapon Slots: v16
~SCALES_OF_BALANCE\SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #109 // IWO - All Potions Usable by Any Class: v6.3.4
~SCALES_OF_BALANCE\SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #172 // STO - IWD Spell Evasion -> For Expanded Spell List: v6.3.4
~SCALES_OF_BALANCE\SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #201 // SBO - Stat-based Bonus Spell Slots: v6.3.4
~SCALES_OF_BALANCE\SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #2012 // SBO - Stat-based Bonus Spells for 5E Casters -> SBO - bonuses for memorization slots AND casting slots: v6.3.4
~SCALES_OF_BALANCE\SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #206 // SBO - Hit Dice Overhaul -> Generous (above-average) hit points: v6.3.4
~NPC_EE\NPC_EE.TP2~ #0 #2000 // NPC class/stat/kit choices: 5.9.1

 

Asking because the only apparent multikit compatible with EET (per k4thos's list) is KrevDaak's updated version of FLamWing's m7multikit mod. When trying to install it on my 1st mod run in PI I saw this:

I know looking at the .tp2 files will detail each component, but this is what gave me the impression, while still functional for basic use, it's either unsupported or you're not supposed to install it with PI. Given how the two components listed in the readme are detailed to work, my guess is the latter. Before I did any manual installs I wanted information from more informed people than me.

Not only that, but per this post it flubs up HLA tables for the created class which, while fixable with NI or just using Graion's fix here, is a consideration. SadieGamer's multikit seems much more reasonable, but I haven't found any good confirmation of EET compatibility. 

Any relevant input is appreciated.

WeiDU (EET Install 2).log

Edited February 8, 2023 by Jumbletuff
EDIT 1: grammar (as always)

[Endarire]

This mod is a separate multikit mod that seemingly works.

[Jumbletuff]

2 hours ago, Endarire said:

This mod is a separate multikit mod that seemingly works.

Cool, that's the mod I mentioned near the end, but I wasn't sure it was EET compatible. I'll try it out.

[subtledoctor]

That thing is bonkers. I mean in a good way… but also in a scope-creep-gone-wild way. To try to make that as your first mod is nuts; my first mod was a single kit  But from there I iterated and added more Weidu techniques, to the point where I can see how to actually achieve SG’s goal.

Thing is, it’s not that complicated a task - at least if you’ve already done all the smaller tasks that together make up the larger one. I took the first step down that road once, made a weidu mod that creates multiclass versions of every ranger kit for every possible multiclass (in the case if rangers, that means only ranger/cleric). The next step would be to check every cleric kit and then make kits from the permutations; QDMulti and/or ADD_KIT_EX really make that pretty simple. The next steps after that would be to repeat the process for every other class in a multiclass combination. Thieves would be a bit of a nightmare thanks to their various skill-related 2da tables, but dealing with that can be simplified. 

So, it’s totally feasible to have multikits for every permutation of two kits, for any arbitrary number of single-class kits. Question is, why hasn’t it been done? And I suspect the answer is, the benefit just isn’t that great. A kenzerker is just ridiculous, and a kensai/wizard slayer would be awful. Done right, kits are designed to give a character a theme, some individual mechanical flavor. Combining kits just muddies that flavor. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by subtledoctor

[Jumbletuff]

33 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

That thing is bonkers. I mean in a good way… but also in a scope-creep-gone-wild way. To try to make that as your first mod is nuts; my first mod was a single kit  But from there I iterated and added more Weidu techniques, to the point where I can see how to actually achieve SG’s goal.

Thing is, it’s not that complicated a task - at least if you’ve already done all the smaller tasks that together make up the larger one. I took the first step down that road once, made a weidu mod that creates multiclass versions of every ranger kit for every possible multiclass (in the case if rangers, that means only ranger/cleric). The next step would be to check every cleric kit and then make kits from the permutations; QDMulti and/or ADD_KIT_EX really make that pretty simple. The next steps after that would be to repeat the process for every other class in a multiclass combination. Thieves would be a bit of a nightmare thanks to their various skill-related 2da tables, but dealing with that can be simplified. 

Yeah, I'm impressed with it conceptually, but it seems like a Pandora's Box of hell, especially when trying to incorporate mod kits as well. Also surprised the initial mod was made in 2010 pre-EE revival; testament to the staying power of the mod community. In the "Bronze Age"  GUI era of BG modding I was more active in playing these games and fiddling with them, hell I made baby modifications (glorified script kiddy work) just to play with stuff so it seems tempting to try again. Not sure I want to surmount Weidu (not that it's necessary for this per se), so my desire for a tri-class Psion will have to wait until later.

If I did go that route and commit, it's good seeing the community has improved lightyears ahead of what I remember (shared resources, github versioning, etc). 

41 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

So, it’s totally feasible to have multikits for every permutation of two kits, for any arbitrary number of single-class kits. Question is, why hasn’t it been done? And I suspect the answer is, the benefit just isn’t that great. A kenzerker is just ridiculous, and a kensai/wizard slayer would be awful. Done right, kits are designed to give a character a theme, some individual mechanical flavor. Combining kits just muddies that flavor. 

YMMV on the flavor argument; I don't necessarily disagree if your aim is system/lore consistency, but I also don't mind having the options from a dabbler's perspective. What I liked about this mod is it's sort of "self-service" that allows it without putting the onus on the author. The only thing I wasn't sure about was kits outside of the normal BG. 

[Jumbletuff]

I just realized you were referring to SG's multikit haha. Still, my comment on it's intended scope stands. Even the author agrees it's pointless to an extent with the 256 cap. 

[subtledoctor]

8 hours ago, Jumbletuff said:

Also surprised the initial mod was made in 2010 pre-EE revival; testament to the staying power of the mod community.

Yeah. Incidentally that's probably why it hoses HLA tables, because it basically made a single-class kit with the combined abilities of two single-class kits. I made some kits for multiclass characters a very long time ago as one of my first efforts, before you could have real multiclass kits right in the menus; those suffered the same HLA problem.

8 hours ago, Jumbletuff said:

What I liked about this mod is it's sort of "self-service" that allows it without putting the onus on the author.

This is indeed the benefit of SG's multikit mod. It's really not that complicated, conceptually, to make every permutation of every kit available to the player (and the 256 kit limit isn't a bar, it doesn't apply to multiclass kits)... but still, it would be a lot of effort to make the mod, and would take a long time to install, and add like 4,000 kits to the game when the player is only going to use one... it's just a bit ridiculous. The SG approach makes more sense: decide what combination you want, and make that combination for this install.

It really shouldn't be that hard to make an updated version of the multikit concept. I mean, Aquadrizzt explicitly added the capability into QDMulti, and argent77 very thoughtfully provided an explicit example of how to do it in ADD_KIT_EX. All a weidu mod would have to do is something like:

• scan kitlist.2da
• provide the player with a list of possible kits to combine
• accept the user choice of two kits (I'm only a bit hazy on this step, I guess it would involve READLN or somesuch)
• plug the choices into ADD_KIT_EX
• spit out a multikit

Bob's your uncle. I don't think ADD_KIT_EX addresses combined HLA tables - I presume you are usually meant to provide one with a new kit - but the mod could handle it fairly easily, a similar example has already been done (by me ).

I've never had the desire to use such a mod so I'm not about to put the time into it. But I can see how such a mod could be made. And if someone wanted to try, I could point them to a few snippets of code they could copy and paste to save about 75% of the effort required.

[Jumbletuff]

1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

 I made some kits for multiclass characters a very long time ago as one of my first efforts, before you could have real multiclass kits right in the menus; those suffered the same HLA problem.

Oh man, that's a hell of a lot of kits. I don't think I ever want a complete installation of all available combinations, especially if bypasses standard restrictions. 

1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

...(and the 256 kit limit isn't a bar, it doesn't apply to multiclass kits)...

That's really good to know actually. Iirc the limit is an index issue right? Is it because multiclass kits use a separate index, are they just allowed "above" the 255 slots or is it another means? 

1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

The SG approach makes more sense: decide what combination you want, and make that combination for this install.

Yeah, I haven't done heavy testing yet, but from playing with the available options this morning it seemingly does a "soft" version of emulating my desire for a Fight/Mage/Scion tri-class  w/ kits from the options you provide in WtP. I'm expecting some quirks, but if it works out it'll be fun to play around with. 

1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

It really shouldn't be that hard to make an updated version of the multikit concept. Aquadrizzt explicitly added the capability into QDMulti, and argent77 very thoughtfully provided an explicit example of how to do it in ADD_KIT_EX. All a weidu mod would have to do is something like:

• scan kitlist.2da
• provide the player with a list of possible kits to combine
• accept the user choice of two kits (I'm only a bit hazy on this step, I guess it would involve READLN or somesuch)
• plug the choices into ADD_KIT_EX
• spit out a multikit

Bob's your uncle. I don't think ADD_KIT_EX addresses combined HLA tables - I presume you are usually meant to provide one with a new kit - but the mod could handle it fairly easily, a similar example has already been done (by me ).

I've never had the desire to use such a mod so I'm not about to put the time into it. But I can see how such a mod could be made. And if someone wanted to try, I could point them to a few snippets of code they could copy and paste to save about 75% of the effort required.

I don't know if I can convey in words how much I love Github. It's made my work and hobby life so much easier. It also makes me actually interested in doing stuff like this again.

I appreciate all the info. Regarding bullet #3 is there a limit to Tri-class kits, or is this more a personal preference? I'm a sucker of X/X/X builds thanks to olde time solo runs and pre-QoL NPC customization mods (NPC_EE, SCS, et. al.).

Conceptually, especially given the current modding norms and standards, I think I'd enjoy the idea of doing something of an extension of Sadiegamer's mod (ethically, of course). It appears to do the bulk of what I want, the only things I'd really consider adding are:

[1] more X/X/X support,

[2] A small, standardized baseline of X/X and X/X/X kits based on personal or popular preference (depending on how far down the rabbit hole I go). 

[3] good HLA tables for #2's baseline and maybe a tool for easier user-generated HLAs??

[4] possible mod support for popular kits/class updates (yours, Morpheus', Artisans namely). 

[5] An updated EE Reaver kit (jk lol)

Essentially just a glorified kitpack w/ good HLAs to support user-generated multikits.  #4 might be overreach, or maybe even unnecessary given common enough mod standards, half of #3 definitely seems like a task and #1 intuitively seems like hell if you want to support all iterations, but hey, this is a thought experiment .  

Won't know exactly what i want to do until I get deeper into the games though. This is my first time in a long time doing fan-made content and I've never done this much of it. I know once I get sufficiently far I'm going to do a separate install to try a number of the mods I missed first round (SnB over SnA, more customer FnP sphere, IRR/SRR, etc). Figure at that point I'll have a firm idea of what I want.

[Jumbletuff]

Also, is there any reason SG's multikit tool isn't on K4thos's compatibility list? Figure I could add it if there's no issue.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Jumbletuff
EDIT 1: Spelling

[subtledoctor]

5 minutes ago, Jumbletuff said:

Essentially just a glorified kitpack

Oh yeah that would be way simpler: just make x kits, using ADD_KIT_EX to create them. If some of them are based on kits from other mods, just condition each one on a FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME check that the underlying mod kits are there.

7 minutes ago, Jumbletuff said:

is there a limit to Tri-class kits, or is this more a personal preference

I just never remember to consider triple-classes, because it's never been something that interested me. ADD_KIT_EX doesn't have an explicit example of working with three kits, but that doesn't mean it can't - @argent77 could answer this.

Worst-case scenario, you could easily use it to combine the aspects of two kits, for someone with three classes.

[Jumbletuff]

2 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Worst-case scenario, you could easily use it to combine the aspects of two kits, for someone with three classes.

Yeah, that's a good worst-case honestly. I generally do F/M/T when I tri-class anyway and barring some mod kits I almost never kit out Mage. So being restricted to F/T kits is still good. I remember reading in passing there's an issue with the Shadowdancer and multikit shenanigans, do you know anything about that and if that's still the case? 

[argent77]

29 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

I just never remember to consider triple-classes, because it's never been something that interested me. ADD_KIT_EX doesn't have an explicit example of working with three kits, but that doesn't mean it can't

Installing multiclass kits for three-class combinations should work the same way as for two-class combinations. Using this example, for a F/M/T kit you just have set "kit_class" parameter to 10 (FIGHTER_MAGE_THIEF), and (optionally) provide an additional mage clab table (e.g. via "clab_base_m" parameter).

Edited February 8, 2023 by argent77

[jmerry]

52 minutes ago, Jumbletuff said:

I remember reading in passing there's an issue with the Shadowdancer and multikit shenanigans, do you know anything about that and if that's still the case? 

The issue is that "Hide in Plain Sight" is hardcoded to the Shadowdancer's kit ID. That kit feature cannot be copied to any other kit, single or multiclass.

[Graion Dilach]

1 hour ago, Jumbletuff said:

Also, is there any reason SG's multikit tool isn't on K4thos's compatibility list? Figure I could add it if there's no issue.

Discuss it with SadieGamer first, although I see no reason against this one.

TBH, I agree with doc, I have my own multikits in a private weidu mod, using ADD_KIT_EX. The only thing what ADD_KIT_EX can't cover for multiclasses is top handle op319s used for one of the source kits. And I can confirm 3-classss multikits work, I have an Artisan's Kitpack Arcane Archer/Mage/I Hate Undead Holy Redeemer kit.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Graion Dilach

[Endarire]

There might be some way - if only via EEex - to add the effects of Hide in Plain Sight to a spell or other ability for other classes/kits to use or to mimic its effects.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Endarire