thingy to install mods: modda

[mickabouille]

8 hours ago, lynx said:

The answer to "how to deal with potential interactivity" has always been to use good old expect.

That... was my first inclination too. And it still is the most likely direction if I ever try to tackle this (ATM, I crudely paper over it and patch interactive mods to not be interactive).

[AL|EN]

2 hours ago, mickabouille said:

It's become hard to answer now.

I think when I didn't know the first thing about mods, weidu, components and all that, I would have found a GUI very valuable anyway.

I would probably have ended up trying to hand-modify whatever textual representation PI would have had, if any.

Now... as I said, I made a program just to my tastes (which are certainly _not_ everybody's tastes) so the comparison would be unfair.

But yes, I'm biaised toward text files anyway (maybe because I'm a software developer).

In general, text files are fine. The allow for even more automation and less unnecessary actions from the users. From what i have seen, advanced users prepare initial version of install sequence using PI and then modify/update it later. Since yaml is most difficult configuration file format for average Joe, you could create simple GUI to prepare yaml files and then launching 'modda' to preform final installation. There is definitely, an audience for such workflow.

[mickabouille]

1 hour ago, AL|EN said:

yaml is most difficult configuration file format for average Joe,

Yes, most definitely not very accessible.

I *think* you can feed json instead of yaml, but it's not much better, it's still mostly a dev thing. Probably a bit more accessible but definitely more verbose.

You can feed the program a weidu.log to generate a yaml file too, but that means you already made some install prototype, or you are confortable with writing a weidu.log by hand which... is not entirely impossible.

I could certainly devise a simple file format for the simplest use case (like one mod name per line, nothing more), have the user answer what weidu prompts and then spits the resulting selection in a file.

A gui... may be a bit out of scope (as I see it).

 

So many ideas...Now I feel I didn't think things through.. which I did not in fact, that was a purely iterative succession of what ifs.

[Lurker]

14 hours ago, AL|EN said:

Is that mean that even if PI would exist for Linux, you would still prefer command line?

If I may chime in. Some points, in no overtly particular order:

1. I like the approach to have core functionality separated from presentation.
2. A well designed GUI can make daunting tasks more accessible, especially for technically less inclined users.
3. Well designed CLI tools are usually a better fit for automation.
4. Forced interactivity might be fitting for some or even many use cases, but breaks automation.
5. Managing more than just a few mods on IE game setups is especially tedious, thanks to its onion-like layer of dependencies, though I can't say if this is due to the way WeiDU handles the engine, or the engine design itself.
6. WeiDU isn't very good with uninstall/reinstall cycles. That makes rollbacks to previous breakpoints by whatever other methods or tools almost a given.
7. Stacking layers of abstraction can [lead to long-winded philosophical ramblings, which is why I deleted several efforts to complete this sentence.|happen and brings its own challenges.]
8. At some point, one may come to the conclusion that reliable automation is maybe the biggest form of usability improvement when reinstalling on a regular basis.

The deal-breaker with PI for me is/was that I cannot even run it. Since this is a hobby, everybody tackles its challenges with the tools they are most comfortable/familiar with, but, sorry to have to say this, the dependency on .NET is a literal killer-feature when not on Windows. (Yes, I detest vendor lock-in and try to avoid that whenever reasonably possible).

And just the other day I was asking myself if setting up a local Jenkins instance to deal with my BG setups would be either reasonable or a sign that things are getting a bit out of hand.

[Lurker]

51 minutes ago, mickabouille said:

You can feed the program a weidu.log to generate a yaml file too, but that means you already made some install prototype

Everything has to begin somewhere. For a first learning experience, going through a manual install is what most people do? Also helps to learn to appreciate anything that eases future reinstalls.

And finding a provided WeiDU.log in some forums isn't the hardest thing to do. Sensibly tweaking it requires a bit more previous knowledge.

I have to admit, when I got back into all of this (and deeper in than anytime before), I used that BWS thingy for a short while. That also doesn't work on Linux (as in installing anything at all), but the GUI did launch, and I used it as a way to get an initial mod order.

When the initial work (and learning) is done, I find nothing easier than to edit a simple text file and then to let another tool do the remaining work after that. GUI or not.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Lurker

[Lurker]

@mickabouille Small heads-up: I exposed both of our tools on Reddit.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Lurker

[mickabouille]

Thanks, I don't use reddit much (only as result from web searches) but I have no issue at all with reaching out.

I'm still uncertain if those have a public but I'd rather they be useful than not if possible

Edited August 16, 2023 by mickabouille

[Lurker]

It was my very first posting on Reddit.

11 minutes ago, mickabouille said:

I'm still uncertain if those have a public but I'd rather they be useful than not if possible

My thoughts exactly.