Thoughts about the component "Treat mages' and priests' High-Level Abilities as innate abilities rather than memorisable spells"

[Morgoth]

Played a ranger/cleric, only to notice that this component basically nerfs Sorcerers and all the other classes, while buffing mages. And mages are already pretty strong.

Having a druid or cleric be subjected to this component is asking for doom and a worse experience.

Some more thoughts here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/31103/having-hla-spells-as-abilities-instead-of-top-level-spells

 

Edited February 28 by Morgoth

[DavidW]

Just checking: this is advice to people, not a bug report? If so I might edit the title, it reads as if there's a bug.

(I don't think I agree with the advice, but that's a different matter. Maybe for solo play, I guess.)

 

[Morgoth]

Right!  Not a bug. I edited the title, I think it's better,but if you got a better idea on how to word it, you're welcome to do so.

And I would also enjoy reading your thoughts. 

Edited February 28 by Morgoth

[subtledoctor]

Seems very (entirely?) dependent on how much you spam rest. Only summon one Planetar, and have to rely on lesser summons like Gate past that? This nerfs mages. Rest every encounter to summon planetars and cat Alacrity in every fight? This buffs mages. (But only very slightly, because in that case your spells are basically unlimited anyway.)

Also, have you increased the level limit? Modded the mage spell table? 

The question is so heavily dependent on the nitty-gritty details of your mod loadout, that I don’t even consider it in those terms. I just think, do I want these to be treated as 10th level spells, with their own “spell slots” simulated by innate abilities, or do I want them to be treated as special 9th level spells that cannot be found on scrolls? Yes there are game balance consequences for each choice, but that does not mean one choice is more right than another. It’s a house rule; apply whichever version you prefer in your house. 

** Actually, with my “semi-innate” function it would be quite easy to implement a third possibility: grant HLA spells as innate abilities/“10th level” spells, but only allow the player to cast one 10th level spell per day. This would be (I think) more in line with the 2E source material. But obviously would much more significant game-balance consequences. 

[J Beau]

I like this component a lot. It eliminates cheesing the most powerful HLAs, allows you to us the lesser HLAs and gives you a chance to play with 9th and 7th level spells that normally get over looked. It makes game play more interesting.

[RoyalProtector]

I like the component provided the spells are powerful enough to be worth having even only once per day. Otherwise, increase uses or improve spell.

Improved Alacrity is a good example of a spell that should be castable only once per day. It's outrageously powerful, after all, to the point where you can trivialize many fights, without giving much thought at all about strategy every round/turn.

But I think the some of the new quest/10 spells need some work.

[Trouveur80]

33 minutes ago, RoyalProtector said:

 

But I think the some of the new quest/10 spells need some work.

That's what ToF revised HLA are for. ^^

[RoyalProtector]

3 minutes ago, Trouveur80 said:

That's what ToF revised HLA are for. ^^

Yes, some of them are quite underwhelming for a once-per-day spell.

Also some of the vanilla ones are made for multiple uses, as far as I'm concerned (like Spirit/Shadow form -- 30 seconds of half physical damage once per day is not that appealing), and as such I don't agree with the generalized one-per-day deal. But that's a topic for ToF forums.

Edited February 29 by RoyalProtector

[Opipo]

20 hours ago, Morgoth said:

Thoughts about the component "Treat mages' and priests' High-Level Abilities 

It's a balance changing tweak, and, unsurprisingly, it changes balance. Seems like working as intended. It doesn't affect sorcerers anyway because they cast all their spells through Illusions anyway. And Divine HLAs are w/e.

.. In fact it does slightly nerf all arcane casters, admittedly sorcerers a bit more than mages, because Dragon's Breath is i think the most damaging lvl9 spell and thus sorcerers(and mages if they memorized it) can't spam it anymore.

[Thacobell]

I've always wanted to use this component, but in the...10 years? I've been usings mods, this one always fails to install for me for some reason. Maybe next time, I won't be lazy and try to troubleshoot it.