Kudos

[vtancredi]

Dear Mods,

I'm new to the BG world. I joined this forum to give my thanks to you for this excellent work.

 

I've played computer RPGs since the gold box Pool of Radiance on the old C64, and skipped over the Baldur's gate and D&D stuff for a few years. After hitting other niches e.g. Fallout and SW KOTOR and others (anyone who hasn't tried Gothic 2 has a treat waiting for them) I decided to try Baldur's gate.

 

I can say that this mod brings me the most emotional impact I've had from pretty much any of them. Most of these games seem to focus on the combat and drama, but almost never hit upon one of the most fundamental parts of everyone's real lives - sex and romance! Sometimes it's amazing to me that our gaming entertainment can just ignore something that is such a big deal for us outside of the computer world.

 

The original KOTOR had a great interaction with one of the characters, Bastila, but after playing BG1 Tutu with your Mod I see they only scratched the surface of what could have been. I especially appreciate that you included more mature content, allowing you to interact with your in game partner physically. Even this is a pale shadow of real life, but to see someone finally took romance to a realistic place is so gratifying and fun.

 

This is my first time playing BG1, and I'd say right now I'm playing almost 50% for the main plot and 50% for my romance with Dynaheir! I love stopping and trying to get a new interaction with her every so often. You also added a great level of spice to the romance by having Minsc be jealous. Just so well done. I was relieved when he finally started accepting it, I thought I was going to have to face him down at some point.

 

As you may be able to tell I'm not done with the game yet (only just entered chapter 5 after killing that guy in the Cloakwood mines) and probably have a lot to go yet. Sorry if I'm blabbing a bit here, but if you all appreciate feedback I'd happily go on.

 

Again, wonderful work and thanks so much.

 

Victor

[Domi]

Thank you.

 

The romance concept as utilized in this mod was actually introduced by BioWARE in BG2; KOTOR romances do take a step-back from BG2 level; BG2 romances are consumated unlike the KOTOR ones.

 

Certain peculiarities are definetly specific to the modding community romances; the more mature content and more focus on actual romantic content are among them. Another thing that is specific to the mods, but promissed to be implemented in the upcoming Dragon Age by Bio are the Flirt-Packs (introduced initially by JC of Kelsey's Romance fame), though I think they are thinking a tad smaller then the fan-made tends to be.

 

Good luck with your adventuring along the Sword Coast and glad that your journey is more enjoyable with the modded content. There is yet plenty for you to discover in BG2 both original and modded

 

P.S: if you want real spice, try adding Edwin to the mix (if he is still alive)

[vtancredi]

Thanks for the reply, Domi.

One question, which I think will be a spoiler for those who haven't finished BG1 with the mod:

 

 

SPOILER

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I finished it finally today, after barely beating that bastard Sarevok (what a battle!). I got a cut scene afterwards with Dynaheir and some mysterious people that had been following us, and then they appeared to have killed her as she held them back for me? I think this is what happened.

I have now started BG2, and the thing that preys on my mind is whether I'll get some resolution to what happened to Dynaheir. In the introductory part of BG2, so far I've found out what happened to Kalid, will there also be some kind of explanation about beloved Dynaheir? Closure??

 

 

 

END SPOILER

 

 

Poignantly yours,

Victor

 

 

Thank you.

 

The romance concept as utilized in this mod was actually introduced by BioWARE in BG2; KOTOR romances do take a step-back from BG2 level; BG2 romances are consumated unlike the KOTOR ones.

 

Certain peculiarities are definetly specific to the modding community romances; the more mature content and more focus on actual romantic content are among them. Another thing that is specific to the mods, but promissed to be implemented in the upcoming Dragon Age by Bio are the Flirt-Packs (introduced initially by JC of Kelsey's Romance fame), though I think they are thinking a tad smaller then the fan-made tends to be.

 

Good luck with your adventuring along the Sword Coast and glad that your journey is more enjoyable with the modded content.  There is yet plenty for you to discover in BG2 both original and modded

 

P.S: if you want real spice, try adding Edwin to the mix (if he is still alive)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Domi]

I have now started BG2, and the thing that preys on my mind is whether I'll get some resolution to what happened to Dynaheir. In the introductory part of BG2, so far I've found out what happened to Kalid, will there also be some kind of explanation about beloved Dynaheir? Closure??

 

You can get the relevant information from Minsc during the first dialogue with him (while he is still in the cage). The Cutscene is tied into that BG2 piece of lore.

[vtancredi]

So that will be it then for Dynaheir? If you wouldn't mind, could you make it more clear for me? I gather it must have been Irenicus and his people that were following us, but how did they know Dynaheir, and why kill her instead of bringing her to the dungeon with the rest of us?

Thanks again for your time.

Victor

 

 

 

I have now started BG2, and the thing that preys on my mind is whether I'll get some resolution to what happened to Dynaheir. In the introductory part of BG2, so far I've found out what happened to Kalid, will there also be some kind of explanation about beloved Dynaheir? Closure??

 

You can get the relevant information from Minsc during the first dialogue with him (while he is still in the cage). The Cutscene is tied into that BG2 piece of lore.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Domi]

So that will be it then for Dynaheir? If you wouldn't mind, could you make it more clear for me? I gather it must have been Irenicus and his people that were following us, but how did they know Dynaheir, and why kill her instead of bringing her to the dungeon with the rest of us?

Thanks again for your time.

Victor

 

Basically, what BioWARE did in BG2 is they killed off the "second" NPC in the two "paired" character couples. They were Khalid and Dynaheir. Both deaths are blamed on Irenicus and will come up from time to time in the BG2 dialogues, as your reason to want the revenge etc.

 

[start rant] IMO, it was done more in order to free up developer's favorite Jaheira for the romance, and the all-time player favorite NPC Minsc from his "unseparable" companion. During BG1 too many players reported killing off/locking away the "second" NPC to forceably split the "pairs". Khalid and Dynaheir were pretty much always on the losing side. [/stop rant]

 

Minsc's first dialogue contains what we know of Dynaheir's death - that she was killed while he saw it by, presumably, Irenicus. It is not entirely clear where and when it happened (ie dungeon or during capture). Dynaheir's death affects Minsc's mental faculties further, his insanity becoming deeper, as he feels that he failed his dajemma, and this time for good.

 

That is about as much as we know of Dynaheir's fate from BG2. One thing is quite clear though - she is definetly dead and by Irenicus' gang's hand, if not by his own.

 

So, when I did the romantic story, I gave it a romantic twist, making Dyna to sacrifice herself in attemot to save PC, and after some deliberations I obscured Irenicus and Co into "mysterious strangers", since a lot of people feel that it were the Thieves, not Irenicus in person who captured the party.

[vtancredi]

Thanks for clearing that up.

I guess that'll have to do. I take it the revenge for Dynaheir will be largely based on Minsc's dialogue then rather than the PCs. That's too bad. I would get a little more out of it if I was able to commiserate with Jaheira, and if I go with her romance, we could console each other.

I could see that being one of the ways that the relationship could get started, as we cry on each others' shoulders so to speak, and then forge a bond while going after our mates' murderer.

Forgive me if you all have already covered this ground - I did read through quite a bit of the discussions about Dynaheir to see if this has been discussed already, otherwise I wouldn't keep blabbing like this

 

 

 

 

 

 

So that will be it then for Dynaheir? If you wouldn't mind, could you make it more clear for me? I gather it must have been Irenicus and his people that were following us, but how did they know Dynaheir, and why kill her instead of bringing her to the dungeon with the rest of us?

Thanks again for your time.

Victor

 

Basically, what BioWARE did in BG2 is they killed off the "second" NPC in the two "paired" character couples. They were Khalid and Dynaheir. Both deaths are blamed on Irenicus and will come up from time to time in the BG2 dialogues, as your reason to want the revenge etc.

 

[start rant] IMO, it was done more in order to free up developer's favorite Jaheira for the romance, and the all-time player favorite NPC Minsc from his "unseparable" companion. During BG1 too many players reported killing off/locking away the "second" NPC to forceably split the "pairs". Khalid and Dynaheir were pretty much always on the losing side. [/stop rant]

 

Minsc's first dialogue contains what we know of Dynaheir's death - that she was killed while he saw it by, presumably, Irenicus. It is not entirely clear where and when it happened (ie dungeon or during capture). Dynaheir's death affects Minsc's mental faculties further, his insanity becoming deeper, as he feels that he failed his dajemma, and this time for good.

 

That is about as much as we know of Dynaheir's fate from BG2. One thing is quite clear though - she is definetly dead and by Irenicus' gang's hand, if not by his own.

 

So, when I did the romantic story, I gave it a romantic twist, making Dyna to sacrifice herself in attemot to save PC, and after some deliberations I obscured Irenicus and Co into "mysterious strangers", since a lot of people feel that it were the Thieves, not Irenicus in person who captured the party.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[cmorgan]

I started out hating to lose Dynaheir, but have since grown to appreciate the developer intent (however controlling). The positive side of things is that Domi's approach means that a true roleplayer has a much more pressing reason added to the list of frustrations pushing a more neutral or good player player through SoA (and TOB) - new romances "authorized" by your first love, revenge for J, M, and you for both of those folks and D, and a chance to use the Turnabout mod to bring back Dy as an end-game ally. For me, the pattern really only works if you have more options at each game start; the combining story-arc like Kivan add beautifully but I think that I would get frustrated by a 20 year old Player1 making a lifetime committment and never changing/growing. And I play LG Paladins!

[EiriktheScald]

For me, the pattern really only works if you have more options at each game start; the combining story-arc like Kivan add beautifully but I think that I would get frustrated by a 20 year old Player1 making a lifetime committment and never changing/growing. And I play LG Paladins!

 

I see your point from a game play issue; needing to add new elements to keep it interesting. But the developers could just as easily added new elements to the existing characters. You can spend a lifetime discovering new things about someone, insight to the person's true character that might surprise you.

[Domi]

Well, my preference would have been either BioWARE transfer all BG1 NPCs into BG2 - which is pretty much undoable, because there are so many of them; or replace the whole cast (ie PC was abducted separately). What they did was a bad compromise imo, but that is because none of my fav characters made it in

 

I actually added a few bits of dialogues in Kivan that commemorated old companions, and Kulyok Xan is doing a great job of allowing the player to account for every possible situation in BG1.

 

At some point there were thoughts on BG1 Consequences mod, but there is no straight-forward transfer of Globals between the two games.

[cmorgan]

Now that would be a great mod idea, one I would never attempt -- I need to go threadsearching to see that Consequences idea. A BG2 mod that asked the player questions about the status of the story at the end of BG1/Tutu, then used them to set a set of variables to knock over the correct dominos --

 

ouch. And I thought trying to get everything to agree within a set of Tutu mods was bad! "I romanced Dynaheir, but lost out when my rep dropped so low that I became Fallen; then managed to get Shar-Teel to like me. Minsc died attacking Sareavok, Immy became a spellcaster at L2, and I dropped off most of the party in Baldur's Gate for a three 'person' romp through Durlag's Tower with Mur'neth and Indira. Set up BG2 to reflect this".

[Domi]

You can check out the small pinned thread in the protected forum on Global transfer. I think Consequences was at the good old time discussed in one of the backrooms. It might be a bit tough to search for though.

 

Basically the concensus was that without transfering Globals, dialogue or token transfer solutions were a bad thing. The events that were want to keep track of were Viconia's and Edwin's deaths, and similar non-modded material. From modded it were obviously romances and party composition.

[berelinde]

You know, the one thing that kind of bugs me on some level is that the pc is never given an opportunity to grieve for their dead lover.

 

I know it would be impossible to incorporate it into the game, so I know this is just the way it has to be.

 

But:

a) you'd think <CHARNAME> would recognize Ajantis in the Windspear Hills

b) you'd think Minsc wouldn't be the only one crying over Dynaheir's death

 

But then, there's lots of times that I don't like any of the offered dialog choices, and that's just the way of things.

 

While I'm ranting, I think it's kind of artificial that romances in general terminate after one insensitive remark. This isn't unique to the NPC Project, believe me. The Bioware romances in BG2 do it to. IRL, most of us have offended our significant others at least once, and the relationship hasn't ended. I suppose this is a necessary condition, though.

[EiriktheScald]

While I'm ranting, I think it's kind of artificial that romances in general terminate after one insensitive remark.

 

Save often, that's what I do. I even try different responses just to see what their reaction is. I can always load a saved game if I need to.

[Domi]

But:

a) you'd think <CHARNAME> would recognize Ajantis in the Windspear Hills

b) you'd think Minsc wouldn't be the only one crying over Dynaheir's death

 

Please, consider that we are modding BG1, and that's what we do. Kulyok brought Xan over to BG2, and Jastey will bring Ajantis over sooner or later. But as BG1NPC project we are commited to BG1.

 

While I'm ranting, I think it's kind of artificial that romances in general terminate after one insensitive remark. This isn't unique to the NPC Project, believe me. The Bioware romances in BG2 do it to. IRL, most of us have offended our significant others at least once, and the relationship hasn't ended. I suppose this is a necessary condition, though.

 

It depends on the romance; some NPCs are more sensitive/unsure of themselves/don't really want to romance PC than the others. etc

 

We discussed at some stage adding the "I appologize" to the non-romantic Player-Initiated Dialogues. You might want to check if the NPC who broke off had one, because it beats me what we decided in the end for each NPC. The "romance interrupted by another" fixer is iirc available for all.

 

These descisions are made based on NPCs personality and context of the "wrong thing". Coran you can't phaze off short of murder, or being boring/an easy conquest. Dynaheir would rather not romance PC so he has to be absolutely perfect to conquer the woman. Shar-Teel would rather slaughter PC any day, so she sure is not interested in the long-term commitment. Kivan in BG2 counts 10 offenses before he loses interest. So, while the same modder, I did it differently for all those romances.

 

Plus, the quick break out of romance is something that allows a modder to avoid multiple branching of the romance, appology sequences, uncertainty of what part of the romance the user had seen, especially if the dialogues are dependent on one another. I did experiment with Coran's multiple pathes and it was hell, and neither it seems well-accepted. So, people might say that the restrictions irritate them theoretically, but practically putting a huge amount of time and effort to attain flexibility at least in this case did not pay off.

 

My ideal NPC development atm is the long non-romantic sequences that does not react to offenses, and romantic sequences that are attuned to what PC says, starting or breaking off depending on that. Yes, I know that many people play with the intention to get through that particular god-damn romance, and hence they will try to find the "right" answer, but ideally, I don't think that breaking the romance should be aggravating becuase of the loss of content. I think it should be just as satsifying to be "just friends". I am trying to achieve this goal in IWD2 NPC pack. Dreaming, perhaps, but one never knows.