subtledoctor

FWIW getting special abilities out of order really doesn’t bother me at all.

Well, you are totally correct as far as the story goes. But the biggest question is, what kind if work needs to be done to make this a reality? If all was open and a player went Bandit Camp -> Cloakwood -> dip into BG City -> Nashkel, then the Nashkel Mines and other southern areas (xvart village, gnoll stronghold) would be suuuper boring. Not fun at all. So are you willing to completely redesign that dungeon? Maybe yes, and that’s fine. But it need not be a requirement for getting anything done; no reason to increase your up-front workload. So maybe consider starting with smaller ambition and giving yourself an easier task to begin with, and then making iterative improvements after that. Your point that we don’t even know there’s a conspiracy until chapter 3 is good, but it also cuts the other way: Charname needs to stumble onto the conspiracy somehow, right? The introduction to a plot requires a certain amount of guidance, or you might miss it altogether. The whole south of the map is very good for low-level adventuring, and the first party members you are likely to meet (Xzar/Montaron/Jaheira/Khalid) all pester you about Nashkel. So let that remain the first place to go. Just for now! Put a pin in it. After defeating Mulahey, devise two clues for continuing instead of just one. One pointing to the Cloakwood, and one pointing to the Bandit Camp. You’ll have to invent something for the former... it can be elaborate or very simple. Maybe start simple, just as a proof-of-concept... an extra letter on Tranzig’s person, or something. Replace the chapter triggers relating to those two chapters, and replace the information in the Bandit Camp that points to Cloakwood. Boom! A limited-scope mod that improves the mid-game and is a reasonable amount of work - maybe! - such that this won’t end up as vaporware. Then you can start on v2, which could maybe try opening the city earlier. That would involve a lot more work, but you’ll have familiarity with the systems now. Then in v3, you can circle back to the Nashkel conundrum. Make the Bandit Camp and Cloakwood available; maybe redesign them a bit in case the party is very inexperienced when going there; redesign the Nashkel mine in case the party is highly experienced when going there; and set up a new set of plot breadcrumbs that allow discovery of the conspiracy from any of the three directions (Naskel south, Bandit Camp northeast, or Cloakwood northwest). Or switch v2 and v3. Whatever. My main point is to strongly recommend doing that v1 first, reducing scope in order to get something real and playable out the door.

I think EVERYBODY would be very interested in playing BGEE modded such that the chapter order was more flexible. But I suspect you didn't get much in the way of a response to the 'how much effort' question because very few people probably have a good sense of that. Off the top of my head: I'd say 1) you would need to comb through every script and replace all chapter-based triggers with GlobalGT triggers, and then set the appropriate global variables upon advancing to new chapters. Then 2) you would need to consider story issues and adjust how certain things play out if things are done out of order. Then 3) you would need to consider game balance issues and adjust certain encounters. (E.g. who wants to wade through a cave full of kobolds after destroying a a nest of bandits and flooding a stolen mine?) Then, 4) you would discover a hundred arcane little facets of the game that would screw up your careful adjustments, and have to respond to them. Or not? Who knows? Now, I make rule-tweak mods; this sort of thing is way outside my wheelhouse, so I'm not sure about most of that. Again, I think most people don't have answers for how to do this, and everyone is basically hoping that you forge ahead anyway and figure it out, and the share the result with us. As I think about this I have two ideas. Nashkel should still be the first thing. It's your only lead; Charname has no direction after leaving Candlekeep except to drift down to Naskel. And, compared the other end-chapter areas it is the only one suitable for level 2 characters. So the beginning through Mulahey can be left as-is. But, after defeating Mulahey and stopping the iron from being tainted anymore, then everything could open up to you. You could get two leads to pursue, one leading to the bandits and one leading to the Cloakwood. Plus, with the source of the Iron Crisis identified, there is reason to open the bridge to Baldur's Gate. Which leads me to my next thought: Ideally, you could open up BG City at the same time, and let players explore there and set up a base of operations, and maybe do TotSC content, before heading back south to investigate the bandits and the Cloakwood. This could freshen up the way players get through the game; many have discussed how reaching BG City is often a let-down, and somewhat aimless urban exploring after a game's worth of adventuring can lead to fatigue that sometimes leads to games being abandoned. How easy it would be to open the city early, I have no idea? How many things are there to stumble upon that assume you have completed both the Bandit Camp and the Cloakwood? I have no idea. Certainly more than 1 thing... but for all I know it could be anywhere between 2 and 20. But, if you figured that out and let people intersperse city exploration among more distant adventures, it could be amazingly good.

Since I'm not getting an answer, I'll clarify a potential theory: Both Might & Guile and the thief HLAs in Refinements v4 set a SPECIFIC value on rogues. This SPECIFIC value is then removed if/when you choose the 'Use Magical Device' feat or HLA. And it is removed for all magic-using classes by default at level 1, for the case of dual-classing. If something about the chapter progression in EET is messing with SPECIFIC values, then that is very much something I want to know about. (OTOH, as I think about it, if the value is removed then the bug people would experience would be more people able to use scrolls - not more people unable to use scrolls. So this is probably just a red herring. Still, if anyone has experience of this bug, or of not seeing this bug, it would be good to know.)

Ah, that's because the Arcanist casting system was set up while you had the nonworking version of Identify... the identify hotfix changes it to a different file but the Arcanist system doesn't know that. Same is probably true of any version of Identify in the Faiths & Powers sphere system, if you play with that. It's a slightly tougher nut to crack, but I might be able to make another hotfix. Let me see. (Btw this is only an issue for games where the Identify hotfix was used... anyone who installs Revised Identify via TnB v0.9.10+ should see it working fine for the Arcanist and FnP.)

Well, not to dampen your enthusiasm, but the mod was already compatible with lefreut’s (provided lefreut’s is installed first). This bug was introduced by me, and affected all games regardless of UI. Fixed now though!

I’m pretty sure that won’t work here. And is irrelevant anyway, as we’re not talking about a passive bonus added as a CRE effect. And what’s more, I suspect that would be problematic even if it did work. We’re talking about adding an active spell on level-up, like Offensive Spin for a Blade. Traditionally this is done with a GA_ line in the kit ability table. IIRC, spells granted by GA_ are removed upon leaving the party, and granted back upon re-joining. I surmise the whole reason SCS does this via opcode 171 in an AP_ line is that removing/re-granting the Sequencer abilities can be problematic if the NPC has a filled sequencer. If that’s true, the solution is not to make them act like other granted abilities, but to just stop the AP_ spell from being applied more than once. Simplest way to do that is opcode 206 with timing mode 9 - applied by something that has a different parent resource as the AP_ spell.

Okay, I set up an account in Vimeo, I added a video of the spellcasting system in action, in the 2nd post above.

Great work!

Okay, that wasn't too hard. Pretty obvious mistake in retrospect, it was introduced when I enabled the player to decide at which level they want the Identify spell to reside. For clarity: by default the spell is a level 1 spell, but you can change that in the mod's settings file. (You might want to move to level 2 if, say, you use the "Level 1 Cantrips" component, or if you just want more slots for Magic Missile, or whatever.) It works now; you can get the latest version of the mod here. If anyone has a game in progress, this hotfix should get it working for you. Cheers!

I'll see if I can figure out the problem or, if need be, just try to transpose the working code from Will to Power into this mod. Fingers crossed.

Just need to judiciously apply 206 protection against the AP_ spell... not in the spell itself - because that gets undone upon leaving the party - but maybe in the Sequencer innate ability. (Of course the ability could still multiply if someone leaves/joins before ever using it... but who in their right mind would let it go unused?)

Thanks go to kjeron for that quick update. Interesting! Though, I’m not sure I love that idea. Most spells can fit the idea of a deity saying “I give unto thee magic!” But sequencers and contingencies and the old Permanency spell etc. always seemed to me the province of wizards, studying and experimenting, not just to do magic but to discover new and interesting techniques for doing magic. Sequencers seem more like a technique, than a spell. (That’s why I like the idea of innate sequencers - pulling them out of the spellbook. (Speaking of which, I should probably make an innate version of sequencers that work for Arcanists...))

Here's how it's supposed to work. This video is from my Will to Power psionics mod. It uses the same code as Tome & Blood; I don't know why this one isn't working. Will look into it. video (I don't know how to embed a video...)

You cast the spell and then the inventory screen magically appears in front of you. Unidentified items are highlighted, and you can click on 1-4 of them and they become identified. It's really quite nice. (I take no credit! The UI code is all by Bubb, I only used Weidu to put it into a spell.) I really need to set up a Youtube or something, so I can make videos demonstrating this stuff... EDIT Nope, it's not working. Dammit! I haven't touched that component, why would it stop working?? Sigh. Off to troubleshoot.

Huh. It shouldn't be greyed out... I think the SPWI110 file is hard-coded to be greyed out, but if you added it as a 2nd-level spell (default behavior for the mod) then it should be castable like any other spell. I'm fairly sure I've cast it in my current game, so that means the issue is somewhere in the differences between our mod lists. I don't use Lefreut's (doesn't work on an iPad AFAIK) so that might be it... I'll double check things on my end, though. The new identify is pretty cool when it works, and being able to identify 4 items with one casting later on in the game is a nice convenience. Btw I've fixed the install problem in v4.2 of the hotfix, so if anyone else wants to fix Arcanists (or MnG bards) without disturbing your install, you can do that now.

Install order might be the issue. If you install Lefreut’s after TnB, it will definitely break things. But I thought they work together if you install Lefreut’s first...

Updated to v0.7, fixing a relatively serious bug that could wipe out your spell slots depending on who you cast a spell at. If anyone has a game in progress, there is a hotfix that you can apply instead of reinstalling mods.

Meanwhile, if you installed v4.11, spellcasting might be a bit screwy for Revised Bards. That is fixed in v4.11.2, and if you have a game in progress there is a hotfix you can apply.

Okay, I believe I've fixed the casting-spells-on-other-people bug, and the Arcanists-don't-initialize bug, and updated the sequencer menu for IWDEE, in version 0.9.9. If you are only worried about the casting-spells-on-other-people bug and you have a game in progress, this hotfix should fix things. And sorry, I just noticed this: As long as you install TnB after SR, they work fine together. The Identify component will only conflict with UI mods. (Also, just to be sure: you don't use it from the inventory screen, you actually have to cast the spell in the main screen like other spells.) No, that's a bug. In fact I think it's the same bug as the "don't initialize" thing I mentioned earlier. Assuming that's right, it is fixed in v0.9.9, and should also be fixed by the hotfix linked above (v4.1)

Huh. So maybe this is one of the rare instances where using the "Original Caster" target is called for. And while I'm asking questions: Part of the reason for that 326 effect is that I've merged both divine and arcane spells into this system. Given that this has to do the following every time you cats a spell: opcode 172 remove every innate spell clone (600 or so opcode 172 effects) check the stat value for divine casting slots and check the stat value for arcane casting slots give you every divine spell clone a number of times matching your divine casting slots (but many are blocked by permanent 206) give you every arcane spell clone a number of times matching your arcane casting slots (but many are blocked by permanent 206) That seems like a lot to do every time you cast a spell. I figured I could reduce processing overhead by only doing #3 for divine casters and only doing #4 for arcane casters. Thus the conditional 326 effects. If it makes the targeting work better, I could do both #3 and #4 via opcode 146, and simply add a 318 effect in front of each spell to block arcane casters from attempting to add divine clones, and vice versa. But, if a spell has hundreds or thousands of effects and they are blocked by opcode 318, does it actually save the computer from having to process all those effects? Or are they processed, but simply not applied to the target? (That said, leaving the 326 effects in place and switching to target mode 9 would be an easier fix, and preserve the current, otherwise-working design. EDIT - target mode 9 does not fix this. Gonna have to try one of the other fixes.)

@kjeron while you're here maybe you can confirm my suspicion about the spells not working for Arcanists. The system worked fine in TnB v0.9.4 and I don't see anything overtly wrong in 0.9.7 - it is installing correctly according to its design. This is how the new version works: SpellA is an innate ability with an ability header targeting "Living Actor (1)" with the following effects: Opcode 146, target = "Preset Target (2)," casting SPWI214 (Strength) Opcode 146, target = "Self (1)," casting SpellB which reduces a stat value by 1 (representing spell slots) Opcode 326, target = "Self (1)," on condition of a spellstate being set, casting SpellC which triggers the cycle of checking the stat value and giving innate abilities to match the correct number of spell slots My guess is, even though the 326 effect is set to target "Self," either the condition or the spell it casts is referring to the "Living Actor" that you click on when you cast the spell. If that's the case, then I would need to nest that condition inside a simpler 146 effect targeting "Self," or something like that. EDIT - yeah, looking back at an install with version 0.9.4 where this works fine, SpellA looks like 146 146 146 ----------------------- Meanwhile, in testing this, I can't get the 0.9.7 Arcanist's spellcasting to initialize at all, which is weird because it uses the same underlying system as the broader 5E mod and MnG bards, and those work fine (in this regard). So, two bugs I need to nail down for this kit.

You can get v33.4 from here. Ordinarily I would not be quick to recommend using an old version of someone's mod. So it might be worth consolidating information about the recent updates. Caedwyr: "SCS version 33.4 fails to install with the weidu version updated to v247. SCS installs just fine with weidu v246." DavidW: "v33.5 is now out, addressing the WEIDU v247 issues." Grodrigues: "The error appears first in the Improved Shapeshift component, but is not fatal, and then explodes in the NPC customization. ... I should add that this is a regression as with SCS v33.4 and weidu 246 everything installed fine." DavidW: "v33.6 is now out, fixing the problem with grodrigues's install." DavidW: "Updated to version 33.7, mostly to fix a non-English-language problem that 33.5 created." It seems to me that 33.5, 33.6, and 33.7 don't actually have much in the way of substantive updates, in other words 33.4 might be a fine version to use. The error that seems to have led to it being changed was an install error, not an error in the behavior of the mod. Which means, if you can install it, it might be fine to use 33.4. Interestingly, I installed 33.4 just fine with Weidu v247 on my Mac... but I don't know if Caedwyr's install failure was with a component I did not try. (I didn't install all of the tactical options.) I'm not going to tell people what to do. For me, I have installed 33.4, some but not all AI components and some but not all tactical components, in English, with Weidu v247. And I have not seen anything odd in-game. So using v33.4 is a solution that works for me. Anyone else reading the thread, can take in the information I linked to above and come to your own conclusions about what to do. (My perspective on the reported 33.7 bug: it wouldn't bother me much, because if a mage runs out of spells, they are dead regardless whether they stand around doing nothing or act "smart" by moving and attacking with a quarterstaff.)

Huh, that's weird. Do you have any other UI mods? The Sequencer screens are busted on IWDEE 2.5 anyway, it displays the available spells in a horizontal row, alphabetically, with no scrolling. So if there are more than 10 or 12 choices, the last ones will be unavailable. This also affects the MnG Feat System when used in IWDEE, there is not really any way around it at the moment. But still I didn't see what you are describing - using that screen for familiars messing it up for regular sequencers. Unfortunately there's not a ton I can do... the code for the familiar choice is borrowed wholesale from kjeron. The same code is used for Might & Guile feat choices, bard song choices, and archer called shot choices; and for Tome & Blood multiclass sorcerer spell choices. I wonder if those have the same effect that you are seeing. (I can't play IWDEE at the moment (as in for about two years) because Beamdog made version 2.5 unmoddable on iOS - nothing wrong with the game itself, they just screwed up the OS file-handling hooks, and refused to update them. So I have not been able to do the same kind of in-depth testing where I play through the whole game, on IWDEE the way I've been able to with BGEE/SoD/BG2EE.) --------------------------------------- EDIT - I see I actually have the same problem as vr1l, in the general 5E casting mod. So that's not great. Gonna need updates to several mods, and probably to reinstall my current game. Sigh. At least I have an inkling of how to fix it. Maybe I can make a hotfix so we don't need to reinstall. I'll report back soon.

Did you do a ctrl-R on the character(s) at some point? Or change thigns with EEKeeper? Or, does anyone know if EET itself does something equivalent to ctrl-R whne moving between campaigns? Just to be clear: if I read your post correctly, scrolls are usable when you start a new game in the SoD/SoA campaign, but they are not usable when you transition a game directly from BG1 into SoD or SoA? (Btw learning spells from scrolls is a different mechanism from casting spells from scrolls. The former relies on the exclusion flags in the spell file, while the latter relies on the exclusion flags in the item file. It's totally possible to restrict one but not the other.) If you are able to, can you compare the two saves, one where Imoen can use the scroll and one where she cannot use the scroll, and tell us what the "SPECIFIC" value is for Imoen's character?