Spell Immunity: Alteration v Time Stop

[BigRob]

That's interestng. The implication is it is the caster who is moved out of time, not everyone else who is frozen... In that sense it's more like an Uber Haste, which would mean that SI:Alteration doesn't protect against it.

[Guest Ecoris]

Thoughts on adding protection from Time Stop to SI: Alteration?

It's a major tweak but i think it's quite understandable...Time Stop is supposed to be an uber-slow spell and someone immune to Alteration shouldn't be affected.

But then, Immunity to Illusions would make you see through invisibility and mirror images, etc.

I think this is debatable: Spell Immunity should protect the caster from harming spells imo, it shouldn't dispel anything nor removing buffs from enemies.

I think your logic is faulty. Time stop as well as Invisibility both affect the physical reality; why should SI have the mage be affected by one but not the other?

[Demivrgvs]

Because Invisibility only affect the caster making him invisible without altering/touching the enemies. I presume time stop affect both: uber-slowing enemies while uber-hasting the caster. At least it's how i think time stop works...because "real" time stop is non-sense imo, it would freeze all the Forgotten Realms everytime a mage cast it!!!

[Caedwyr]

From the full description, a Time stop affects a bubble with a 15' radius around the caster. Anything entering this bubble is affected by the time stop. Deities are not affected, but everything else is.

 

The implementation is slightly different in BG2.

[Demivrgvs]

Than it confirms my theory that time stop actually alters/affects creatures in the area of effect.

[Caedwyr]

To be sure everyone is on the same page with regards to spell immunity, here is the description:

 

Spell Immunity (Abjuration)

Level: 5

Range: 0

Duration: 1 round / level

Casting Time: 5

Area of Effect: Special

Saving Throw: None

 

Casting this spell grants the wizard protection from one spell school of her choice. After the spell is cast, the wizard must choose the school she wishes to be protected from. All spells of this school will not be able to harm or aid the caster for the duration of this spell. This includes all spells from this school, including any priest spells that might benefit the caster.

[Guest Ecoris]

I presume time stop affect both: uber-slowing enemies while uber-hasting the caster. At least it's how i think time stop works...because "real" time stop is non-sense imo, it would freeze all the Forgotten Realms everytime a mage cast it!!!

Time Stop stops the flow of time locally, except that the caster is free to move about and cast spells as normal; that's at least how I see it (i.e. not as a combination of hasting/slowing).

And as a side-question: How is magic supposed to make sense? Surely, stopping time locally makes no sense if you consider the physics involved but we are in a fantasy setting.

[Demivrgvs]

And as a side-question: How is magic supposed to make sense?

Actually common sense and logic is used in fantasy settings...if it wasn't so you would find acid arrows dealing cold damage, hordes of kobolds immune to time stop, level 20 fighters killed stumbling in a rock, mages casting fireballs from their feet, etc.

 

Anyway we just have different opinions and both of them can be acceptable...it's a matter of personal view deciding if freezing time implies affecting creatures and objects directly or not...i think it does.

I think Time Stop can be interpreted as a super-haste, a super-slow or both of them...but time itself doesn't exist as something that can be altered/stopped (it's not an object neither a creature i suppose) without interfering with the space-time continuum ...it would mean that the sun inside the "time stop sphere" will be de-synchronized compared to the sun outside said sphere!

[roychen]

Now, this is an interesting topic..

 

Personally, I feel SI:Alteration shouldn't make you immune to Time Stop. As the spell description says, it affects the flow of time for the caster, and doesn't do anything to (directly) affect the caster's enemies.

 

However, any Alteration spells that specifically targetted an enemy mage with SI:Alteration up, should not have any effect on him.

[Kulyok]

I think this one makes as much sense as _any_ immunity to Time Stop, introduced in Ascension or otherwise. Or, rather, it makes as little sense as any other immunity. But it is still a cool tweak.

[Guest Guest]

but time itself doesn't exist as something that can be altered/stopped (it's not an object neither a creature i suppose) without interfering with the space-time continuum ...it would mean that the sun inside the "time stop sphere" will be de-synchronized compared to the sun outside said sphere!

I understand the super-slow explanation (no super-haste; anything outside the area of effect should experience the same "speed" of time as the caster), but I've always been of the impression that slow/haste effects did not change a person's perception of time; it just slowed/hasted their physical movement.

 

But if you dislike the explanation that alters the flow of time because of whatever physical law, how about fireball vs termodynamics? (Perhaps the mage converts a small amount of mass into energy that sets fire to the air itself? ).

[Guest Ecoris]

Forgot to leave my name in the post above. Perhaps I should just register to continue this discussion.

[Demivrgvs]

I understand the super-slow explanation (no super-haste; anything outside the area of effect should experience the same "speed" of time as the caster), but I've always been of the impression that slow/haste effects did not change a person's perception of time; it just slowed/hasted their physical movement.

Super-haste, if accepted, is applied to the caster obviously and has nothing to do with creatures in the area. I've never supposed that slow/haste effects change the perception of time, actually i've said that i see time stop as a super-slow just because that doesn't change perception of time. Indeed stopping the flowing of time (which isn't a slow neither a haste effect) modifies the perception of time. Last but not least: if you accept the super-slow explanation than SI: Alteration"should"protect from it.

But if you dislike the explanation that alters the flow of time because of whatever physical law, how about fireball vs termodynamics?

I was talking about following a logic which is different from following physical laws. You can talk about nymph's blinding/stunnig beauty, a dwarf fighting against giants, etc. still following a"logic"but it's absolutely obvious that physical law doesn't describe these sort of things!

[Guest Ecoris]

I was talking about following a logic which is different from following physical laws.

But by that logic why can't a mage affect the flow of time? (When he can do so many other supernatural things).

[Gort]

super-slow is no different from super-haste. Same as you grow bigger or all the other world gets smaller. There's no difference if there's nothing else to compare to.

 

edit: on the second thought, there are deities, though