Spell Revisions Mod

[Demivrgvs]

I don't think adding a save vs. spell for Doom is a good idea as Doom's purpose is to lower saving throws. That's like allowing magic resistance for Lower Resistance.

You've quite convinced me.

 

Anyway i've forgot to mention arcane spells possible tweaks:

- Reflected Image: instead of being a worthless copy of Mirror Image what about if it creates a clone like the one created with Mislead? Obviously the clone will not be able to attack, cast, use items, quick slots, etc...

- Ray of Enfeeblement: add a slow or a movement rate penalty to target (PCs already suffer from lowered weight allowance but it seems to have no effect on enemies...)

- Enchanted Weapon: create +4 enchanted weapons at 15th level and +5 at level at 20th level

- Chaos: in PnP creatures with less Hit Dice than the caster are not allowed a save (that's the only thing that differentiates this spell from Confusion), i think this would probably be extremely unbalancing but it can be made so that creatures with 5 or more levels less than the caster are not allowed to save

- Disintegrate: i really don't know what to do with this spell but as it is now it's useless for PCs and very annoying if casted by enemies...what about making it dealing high magic or crushing damage?

- Project Image: can't use quick slots, items, innate abilities,...only the spellcasting button remain active

- Simulacrum: removed the color effects so that you can't disting anymore which one is the original, i don't know if it should be able to use quick slots...

[Demivrgvs]

Well there's one type of spells that absolutely need a good discussion before any change can be made.

I'm talking about Magic Attack Spells: Spell Thrust, Secret Word, Breach, Pierce Magic, Pierce Shield, Ruby Ray of Reversal, Kelben's Warding Whip, Spellstrike.

I really like the solution implemented by DavidW in SCS II which gives these spells (except Breach) a small area of effect (6' radius more or less) so that they can be casted against invisible opponents (at the same time nerfing SI:Divination+Improved Invisibility) but i would probably implement it in a slightly different way. Furthmore he has made Breach affecting Liches and Rakshasas...having something that can do it is necessary imo but i've thought about another possible solution.

Let's start with the suggestions, i hope someone will help me in this difficult task.

 

- Spell Thrust: area of effect X' radius ( 5'<X<15' ), removes protections of 5th level or lower

- Secret Word: leave it as it is now (removes one protection of 8th level or lower)

- Breach: shouldn't Spell Deflection/Turning protect from it? Doesn't affect Liches/Rakshasas

- Pierce Magic: leave it as it is now (pratically a Secret Word + lesser Lower Resistance)

- Pierce Shield: to better differentiates it from Pierce Magic, which is identical apart a lesser lower resistance effect, it can be made like an improved Secret Word + Breach (removes one spell protection of any level; affects Liches/Rakshasas without broking their spell level immunity rule)

- Kelben's Warding Whip: last 3 round, a total of 4 spell protections are removed

- Ruby Ray: area of effect X' radius ( 5'<X<15' ), still removes only one protection

- Spellstrike: area of effect X' radius ( 5'<X<15' ), can remove Protection from Magic scroll effects too (again copyrights go to DavidW )

[DavidW]

I should say that what I'd have liked to do with those spells is just let them target improved-invisible creatures, but I don't think the engine allows that.

 

And the reason Breach doesn't get an area effect is that I wanted it to be affected by Spell Turning.

[Demivrgvs]

I should say that what I'd have liked to do with those spells is just let them target improved-invisible creatures, but I don't think the engine allows that.

Sorry if i haven't been enough clear about it...i know that making invisible opponents targetable by those spells was your true intention and that's the same and only reason for which i would do such a tweak.

[Fyorl]

Why should these spells be able to target improved invisible creatures?

[DavidW]

Why should these spells be able to target improved invisible creatures?

 

There's no "should", it's not intended as a bugfix. But at the moment, Improved Invisibility nullifies all the anti-magic spells available in the game except Remove Magic. Add some spell immunities and it gets worse: II+SI:Abj+SI:Div is basically inpenetrable. I wanted to give players and enemies a few more options in removing enemy defences.

[Demivrgvs]

There's no "should", it's not intended as a bugfix. But at the moment, Improved Invisibility nullifies all the anti-magic spells available in the game except Remove Magic. Add some spell immunities and it gets worse: II+SI:Abj+SI:Div is basically inpenetrable. I wanted to give players and enemies a few more options in removing enemy defences.

Yes...but wouldn't be a better solution to just disallow multiple SI? This way a SI:Divination+Improved Invisibility will at least allow players to try a dispel check, and a SI:Abjuration+Improved Invisibility will allow a True Seeing (i think SI:Abjuration didn't protected from dispell too in vanilla, which is wrong imo). Don't you think that nerfing an overpowered spell like SI would be a better solution than having to tweak all magical attack spells? I know you don't like to change the game basics but i suppose this way it's even less radical than changing multiple spells as you're currently doing. I really can't play without SCS II and i'd like to know what do you think about it DavidW.

 

P.S II+SI:Abj+SI:Div is actually impenetrable without your tweaks. If you don't like my suggestion i think you should add a note about it in SCS II readme because pratically any mid-high level mages make use of multiple SI in your scripts. Otherwise players who for some reason don't like your magical attacks tweak may experience real pain and frustration against them. I've learnt it by experience!

[Fyorl]

I thought the fixpack removed the ability for multiple Spell Immunities. I haven't got much to go on other than what I vaguely remember but I think you're not supposed to be allowed to have multiple Spell Immunities so the fixpackers had it disabled. Or it may be planned for the next release?

 

Why SI:Div though? Surely II+SI:Abj+Non-Detection will have the same effect without using multiple Spell Immunities? Either way, if enemy mages don't abuse the fake scripted contingencies then it will take them a while to get their defences up. The maximum they can do I think is 3 spells from Chain Contingency. If they use those slots to do the combo I mentioned above then they still have to cast Stoneskin, Prot. from Magical Weapons etc. which can be disrupted or at least allow you to get a few attacks in. If they do still cheat and use some crazy chain contingency to instantly cast every defensive spell available then, granted, they will be a bit more difficult to defeat but that's because they've got every defensive spell available active which should make them difficult to beat.

[Demivrgvs]

I thought the fixpack removed the ability for multiple Spell Immunities. I haven't got much to go on other than what I vaguely remember but I think you're not supposed to be allowed to have multiple Spell Immunities so the fixpackers had it disabled. Or it may be planned for the next release?

Never heard about such a fix...but i'm not omnipresent! Anyway if it isn't acknowledged by tha AI, multiple SI can still be casted via contingency even if you make it un-allowed (via protection from spell effect) as i've done (which is why i hope DavidW will change it!).

Surely II+SI:Abj+Non-Detection will have the same effect without using multiple Spell Immunities?

Actually it's not the same: vanilla Non-detection doesn't protect from True Seeing, and even my "improved" version only grants protection creatures who use Hide in Shadows, True Seeing still dispels all illusionary protection spell (Improved Invisibility, Shadow Door, ...)

The maximum they can do I think is 3 spells from Chain Contingency. If they use those slots to do the combo I mentioned above then they still have to cast Stoneskin, Prot. from Magical Weapons etc. which can be disrupted or at least allow you to get a few attacks in. If they do still cheat and use some crazy chain contingency to instantly cast every defensive spell available then, granted, they will be a bit more difficult to defeat but that's because they've got every defensive spell available active which should make them difficult to beat.

Chain Contingency: Mislead+SI:Div+SI:Abj + Contingency:PfMW without counting the mage can cast 1 spell in this round, which can even be a spell trigger ( three level 6 spells!)!

[G-Mon]

Add some spell immunities and it gets worse: II+SI:Abj+SI:Div is basically inpenetrable.

Glitterdust (which, in turn, is foiled by SI:C or (M)GoI, and further strippage is frustrated by Spell Shield and fodder to catch chained Ruby Rays).

 

And here's a combo I thought of after seeing the bit about (M)GoI in the Fixpack area: SI:D + MGoI + PI + C:Invis (helpless) + CC:ProME/ProElements/ProEnergy (myself, helpless). Add SI:A if Dispel Magic removes the globe and multiple SI's are allowed. I'll let you figure out what it all does.

[Fyorl]

Non-detection I think should protect from any form of detection seeing as that is its only purpose. If it can somehow be ignored then it makes the spell weaker and less useful. I could understand True Seeing getting past non-detection if non-detection is itself an illusionary spell (I have no idea if it is) but if not then it shouldn't be able to dispel invisibility-type illusions on a creature with non-detection. Other things like Mirror Image should still be dispelled as they're not being hidden from detection.

[Demivrgvs]

Glitterdust never worked through SI:Divination in vanilla (at least in my test) but i've solved it two minutes ago: the problem was that it used the "detect invisible" effect which couldn't bypass the immunity. Changing it to "cure:invisibility" effect did the work.

 

Non-detection can't fully protect from True Seeing, else it would be exactly like having SI:Div+SI:Abj, it's still very useful for being a level 2 spell.

 

I've changed Imprisonment to work as a Maze which last an eternity...more or less as The Bigg did. It will not break romances anymore this way! There's one flaw, being mazed instead of imprisoned mean you can't leave the area without freeing the allied affected. One possibility is having it run out with a night of sleep so that even if you don't have Freedom there's a way to not get stuck.

[Fyorl]

Hmm, that's much better for Imprisonment. I don't use it myself because I don't think you get any loot from imprisoned monsters but it's certainly less annoying now if you're up against Kangaxx. On a related note, does petrification still break romances or was that fixed a while ago?

 

I still think you should require Freedom to be cast in order to free someone from Imprisonment as it is supposed to imprison someone for all eternity. Would it be possible to instead apply a permanent hold effect that is only dispelled by Freedom? It might require a custom effect but I think DLTCEP can handle that.

[Demivrgvs]

I still think you should require Freedom to be cast in order to free someone from Imprisonment as it is supposed to imprison someone for all eternity. Would it be possible to instead apply a permanent hold effect that is only dispelled by Freedom? It might require a custom effect but I think DLTCEP can handle that

I can handle that. The flaw as i said is that the party will bu stuck in the area if the imprisoned ally isn't freed.

On a related note, does petrification still break romances or was that fixed a while ago?

The Bigg solved it apparently...but it caused some BG I issues i think...i don't know how he managed to fix it anyway (probably using some other effects instead of the original one).

 

By the way i've finally decided how to balance Glitterdust and Detect Invisibility. The former now has a smaller area of effect (10' radius instead of 30') while the latter retains its wide area of effect and, as previously stated, last 1 turn instead of the old instant effect. Furthmore Glitterdust will now make the affected characters unable to return invisible for 4 rounds (as per description: "...all within the area are covered by the dust, which cannot be removed and continues to sparkle until it fades") and it will finally bypass SI:Divination as it always should.

[Fyorl]

So does this mean Glitterdust is finally useful?