Cursed Items Mod

[ahungry]

@Salk- updating a mod a decade later - that's awesome of you!  I am excited to give this one a try on my next play!

I guess @Milochcomment holds up ("there is no final in modding")

[Salk]

Hello, ahungry.

There has been other updates between this one and 3.5 but I failed to announce them here. Please understand that this modification's not compatible with the EE version of the game and was tested properly by me only on Baldur's Gate Trilogy.

[ahungry]

Thanks!

[MikeX]

Hello Salk,

following this conversation

@Bartimaeus changed HELM02 back to its origins and made the Helm of Despair now dvhelm02, which is IMO the way it should be.
Unfortunatly this breaks the installation of your mod as of V4.0, because there is no HELM02_ with IR(R) installed anymore.
So the compatibility code, you just put in for V4.0 needs to be revised to account for the change on the IR(R) side.

Also, could you maybe revise the installing order recommendation regarding ua (unique artifacts from @Magus)?
I think this mod has compatbility code for your mod and thus your mod could be installed BEFORE ua, espacially since the latest recommandation for ua is now to put it after SCS.

Thanks, I really like your mod.

[Salk]

Hello, Mike!

I will release a new version soon enough.

[subtledoctor]

22 hours ago, MikeX said:

Unfortunatly this breaks the installation of your mod as of V4.0, because there is no HELM02_ with IR(R) installed anymore.
So the compatibility code, you just put in for V4.0 needs to be revised to account for the change on the IR(R) side.

@Salk Just be aware, whatever changes have been happening in Bart’s mod, are not reflected in Item Revisions, which remains consistent. Bart has repeatedly said that IRR is a personal project that he is sharing out of convenience, rather than a proper published mod. I would be wary of breaking compatibility with one mod (an official G3 mod, no less)  to gain compatibility with the recent changes of another. 

Wouldn’t it be easiest if Bart simply let HELM02_ stay in the game? (He could still do whatever he wants with HELM02… but no need to remove a file that other mods evidently rely on.) Then Salk wouldn’t have to do anything. 

[MikeX]

3 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

@Salk Just be aware, whatever changes have been happening in Bart’s mod, are not reflected in Item Revisions, which remains consistent. Bart has repeatedly said that IRR is a personal project that he is sharing out of convenience, rather than a proper published mod. I would be wary of breaking compatibility with one mod (an official G3 mod, no less)  to gain compatibility with the recent changes of another. 

Wouldn’t it be easiest if Bart simply let HELM02_ stay in the game? (He could still do whatever he wants with HELM02… but no need to remove a file that other mods evidently rely on.) Then Salk wouldn’t have to do anything. 

As said in the linked thread above:

IR 'breaks' (at least kind of, some dialog options make no sense) mods first, that rely on HELM02 being the 'Helm of Opposite Alignment' by changing the vanilla item to something completely different (Helm of Despair).
Probably because it was unused in oBG2/ToB and IR has been originally designed only for this.
It was used in oBG1, but very unlikely to obtain by the player.
Now with BGT, mod(s?) (e.g. cursed items revision) make it available more easy for the player.

[subtledoctor]

I’m sensitive to that, and it’s not uncommon. For example, Item Upgrade adds new upgraded versions of various items based on their vanilla forms - elemental staves being able to summon lesser elementals, for instance, where IR gives the staves different abilities and has the elemental rings do summoning. So there is a bit of a disconnect in content. Everything installs, though, so players have the choice to accept that inconsistency, or not, at their discretion.

Breaking another mod’s ability to be installed is a horse of a different color. And suggesting a mod change such that its installation will break, in response to the content inconsistency, seems like an overreaction. It seems there are a number of more reasonable alternatives, especially for a mod meant to be installed after IR:

— Detect Bart’s IRR and makes changes in response to it (I don’t know if his mod is detectable, though).

— Just make whatever changes are deemed necessary, right here in this mod. Like, if IR changes HELM02 into the Helm of Despair, and this mod expects the Helm of Opposite Alignment to be on the Demon Knight… then this mod can create its own Helm of Opposite Alignment, and give it to the Demon Knight. 

[Salk]

Hello!

At the moment, I am not really able to do much investigating or testing but I would like to check with you whether the latest official Item Revisions version introduces helm02_.itm into the game or if it was just Item Revisions Revised's initiative. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Salk

[MikeX]

That is what I've gathered:

Offical IR copied vanilla HELM02 'Helm of Opposite Alignment' to HELM02_ and then changed HELM02 to 'Helm of Despair'.

Because some mods (including yours before V4.0) rely on/react to HELM02 being the ''Helm of Opposite Alignment', IRR changed HELM02 back to vanilla and made 'Helm of Despair' a new item code DVHELM02.

[Salk]

Yes, thank you, Mike.

The way l see it is either IR follows suit with the IRR change or IRR undoes it.

If it was an initial choice of course IR's overwriting of original items would need voting down but now it's been like that for many years and it's become accepted.

Personally I'd rather see IRR undo it but it's up to Bartimaeus and I'll respect his choice no matter what.

[Bartimaeus]

Um...all y'all should actually poke around and preferably test before you start making crap up, . The Helm of Opposite Alignment does not exist in any capacity whatsoever in official IR, not as helm02.itm or as helm02_.itm (the "_" series of .itms are IRR's initiative in order to restore original BG1 items that were overwritten by IR back to BG1!), so Cursed Items' code for "helm02_.itm" was an invention made specifically for IRR and can be safely discarded if IRR no longer uses it. How that affects official IR is rather immaterial given that the helm does not exist there in the first place and Cursed Items didn't have any special handling of IR's overwriting of it before now anyways. The most you could do for official IR is either skip patching the item or manually restore Helm of Opposite Alignment...but you could do that in the same exact manner IRR is anyways (i.e. helm02.itm becomes Helm of Opposite Alignment again while Helm of Despair gets a unique item code specific to it). I personally want The Helm of Opposite Alignment to exist within IRR regardless of whether the player installs Cursed Items or not, so it'll continue to be included in IRR in this manner, especially seeing as other mods affecting the Helm of Opposite Alignment assume that it will be helm02.itm. Either skipping over or restoring helm02.itm for official IR is something you would have to do for proper compatibility regardless of whatever IRR chooses to do.

If it were me, I'd firstly detect if IR's main component is installed, then detect that "dvhelm02.itm" (IRR's Helm of Despair) exists: if yes to both, go ahead and patch helm02.itm because you know it's still the Helm of Opposite Alignment; if yes to IR's main component but not dvhelm02.itm, then do not patch helm02.itm because you know that it's IR's Helm of Despair and the Helm of Opposite of Alignment does not exist. After all, if official IR wants the Helm of Opposite Alignment to exist, it probably shouldn't completely overwrite it with some other unrelated item: it's not really Cursed Items' responsibility to figure out how best to restore it (particularly given that its appearance and description will all be different between oBG2, BG1/2EE, IR, and IRR games!).

Edited March 31, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[MikeX]

@Bartimaeus

Thank you for the clarification and sorry for the crap .

[Bartimaeus]

6 minutes ago, MikeX said:

@Bartimaeus

Thank you for the clarification and sorry for the crap .

It wasn't just you, . There are a great many deal of differences between IR and IRR - if one wishes to say something that you believe to be true about the both of them, it is probably a good idea to check or at least ask me before you do first, .

Edited March 31, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[Salk]

My bad for not checking on this personally.

Unfortunately I have much on my plate at the moment.