Demivrgvs Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Well, the at least in some mods or in the original game, I don't remember, the wizards eye has a floating eye animation...I'm not sure it's a mod to add the eye animation, most probably you can't normally see it clearly in-game because the spell's one is permanently invisible. I like the Eyeball "familiar" for NE as per NWN (a sort of tiny, lesser beholder), though the implementation may be slightly difficult. Would it be welcomed? Now, the spider... How in the Unheaven do you believe it to be a Lawful Neutral creature? As there is only one Lawful Neutral spider in the whole game, and that's the Wraith Spider, all the others are either True Neutral or Chaotic Evil-> which leads me to believe that they should all be Chaotic Neutral! As Salk says animals should be TN, and as I've said myself the actual spider's alignment will be TN, the problem is that I have to fill the LN slot with something, and surely the spider is better than a ferret with sky high pickpocketing abilities! Plus the Dragonic/Fey+ Animal + Demonic is kinda bad, as none of the dragons are actually metallic which the lore say to be good... and the Mephits are definetly all evil... and the common ferret today is a domistecated version of the original natural variant.I've said that Draconic+Animal+Demonic suggestion was good, not that I would have absolutely worked to stay true to it. If to offer more variety (like the Eyeball suggestion) we have to "sacrifice" that, I'm all for it. That being said you should know I generally do my homework quite well, and the lore says: - Pseudodragon is a NG creature (any edition) - Faerie Dragon is a CG creature (any edition) - Mephits were evil (2nd edition), but they have been changed to neutral in 3rd edition I don't know what you're trying to say about the ferret, what's the point? Link to comment
Jarno Mikkola Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Now, the spider... How in the Unheaven do you believe it to be a Lawful Neutral creature? As there is only one Lawful Neutral spider in the whole game, and that's the Wraith Spider, all the others are either True Neutral or Chaotic Evil-> which leads me to believe that they should all be Chaotic Neutral! As Salk says animals should be TN, and as I've said myself the actual spider's alignment will be TN, the problem is that I have to fill the LN slot with something, and surely the spider is better than a ferret with sky high pickpocketing abilities! Well, yes, a true animal in the wild is true neutral, mostly... But, if we take that the animals are what they are, pets and domesticated animals, we see: That, we can put the cat to Lawful Neutral. After all, the cat originally was domesticated to get rid of the rats and other pest animals... Unless it's indeed a Black Cat. The ferret can stay in True Neutral... But the Spider... have you seen very many Lawful Neutral Witches taking care of big, black and poisonous spiders, and liking every moment of it. Yes, even in movies. After all, the webs and poison is only there for defense... "Ah yes, the man, the king and my husband, was getting aggressive." Link to comment
Salk Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 I like the Eyeball "familiar" for NE as per NWN (a sort of tiny, lesser beholder), though the implementation may be slightly difficult. Would it be welcomed? It would be more than welcome. It would be ideal. The problem is: the animations? If you can make the Eyeball the NE familiar, we would still have the problem for the LG familiar (if we leave the Pseudo Dragon at NG) though. Perhaps the Eyeball is something that can be worked on for a next version and we should just accept that table I posted earlier with a NE Dust Mephit and a NG Salt Mephit. In this way you can call this phase over and move ahead. Link to comment
Jarno Mikkola Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 The problem is: the animations?... Perhaps the Eyeball is something that can be worked on for a next version and we should just accept that table I posted earlier with a NE Dust Mephit and a NG Salt Mephit. The animation, is all ready in the game, this: And lets add to Demivrgvs work by adding yet another creature, that's totally unnecessary, if it's to be replaced in the next edition. Link to comment
Salk Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Oh if the animation is there available, then I guess it is viable without too much effort. Since the spider will take the TN place, it is all down to the LG and the LN slots then... LG: ? NG: Pseudo dragon CG: Fairy dragon LN: ? TN: Spider CN: Cat LE: Imp NE: Eyeball CE: Quasit Any suggestions? What about moving the Rabbit to LN? It would also be possible to introduce the Fire Drake (see http://www.dlogs.net/monsters/mm00080.htm) which might be adapted to NG (with the Pseudo Dragon set to LG), using the same animation of the other draconic familair and virtually completing the circles (draconic, animals, demoniac) so that it becomes: LG: Pseudo Dragon NG: Fire Drake CG: Fairy Dragon LN: Rabbit TN: Spider CN: Cat LE: Imp NE: Eyeball CE: Quasit Link to comment
Salk Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 That, we can put the cat to Lawful Neutral. After all, the cat originally was domesticated to get rid of the rats and other pest animals... The cat is one of the most striking examples of a very individualistic animal. Its alignment can be described with nothing but chaotic. The fact that they were used in rat hunting jobs by humans doesn't mean that they changed their nature to accomodate them. Hunting rats is what cats feel they want to do for their personal satisfaction. Link to comment
Demivrgvs Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 As I imagined I have very few time this week but I've managed to do some "research" tonight and a few tests to check if the following suggestion could be implemented, and I think it can be done. Considering you've liked the Eyeball suggestion I hope you'd like for the LG slot to have the Lantern Archon. I've also find out that in AD&D exists an interesting Elven Cat creature, which can be used as a base for our work. Jarno, the creature is listed as CN creature. The only small issue remaining on this matter may be finding a creature to perfectly fit the LN slot, which would mean moving the Mutated Spider to the TN slot and remove the Ferret. Else I'll use the former as LN and the latter as TN. As soon as I have some spare time I'll actively work a little more on the in-game builds (which are harder to script than I though) of the familiars we're most sure of. Link to comment
Salk Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Demi, excellent news! The Lantern Archon sounds just perfect. So here comes the updated list: LG: Lantern Archon NG: Pseudo Dragon CG: Fairy Dragon LN: ? TN: Mutated spider CN: Elven Cat LE: Imp NE: Eyeball CE: Quasit About the LN slot, I hope someone can come with good suggestions. For me, it would be just fine to have the Mutated spider take LN and move the Ferret to TN. Keep it up! Link to comment
Jarno Mikkola Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Lantern Archon. Are you going to make it's the light ball animation using the Eyeball animation with a permanent glow effect or some other means like the recolored globe effect from the Globe of Invulnerability? Or by some other means... Link to comment
DavidW Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 - Mephits were evil (2nd edition), but they have been changed to neutral in 3rd edition But BG2 is 2nd edition, and (more importantly) there are lots of mephits already in BG2, and they're all evil. (I think: I haven't checked all of them) Link to comment
Jarno Mikkola Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 But BG2 is 2nd edition, and (more importantly) there are lots of mephits already in BG2, and they're all evil. (I think: I haven't checked all of them) There is about half Neutral(ar18fam, the OBxxxx's, ELMEPxxx's, few FAMxxxxx's), 4 have Alignment - 0 (none) as they are the Portal Mephises, the 2 that the familiars are are Neutral Evil(FAMDUS with T or 25), and the rest are Chaotic Evil. Link to comment
Demivrgvs Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Lantern Archon Are you going to make it's the light ball animation using the Eyeball animation with a permanent glow effect or some other means like the recolored globe effect from the Globe of Invulnerability? Or by some other means...I've used the Eyeball animation, but Colorglow Pulse doesn't work well because at intervals you would have noticed the "eye", while the animation must look like a golden almost white sphere. A Colorglow Solid effect works quite well, but I've done something even better imo. Using a "repeating EFF" opcode to apply a custom animation the orb actually emanates light in its proximity. If you want to have an idea of what I've done you may look at V2.9 False Dawn's new animation, which makes the caster glow in a very similar way. And if you're at it the Lantern Archon's ranged attacks currently use V2.9 Searing Orb's animation and effects. Mephit - Mephits were evil (2nd edition), but they have been changed to neutral in 3rd edition But BG2 is 2nd edition, and (more importantly) there are lots of mephits already in BG2, and they're all evil. (I think: I haven't checked all of them) That is why I decided to not use Dust Mephit as a neutral familiar, but actually I'm not going to use any mephit at all. It uses the very same animation of Imp and Quasit, and those three familiars would have been pratically the same ones both in appearance and abilities. Eyeball has imo a lot more potential if I manage to balance it. Link to comment
Salk Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 That is why I decided to not use Dust Mephit as a neutral familiar, but actually I'm not going to use any mephit at all. It uses the very same animation of Imp and Quasit, and those three familiars would have been pratically the same ones both in appearance and abilities. Eyeball has imo a lot more potential if I manage to balance it. What we need to avoid (if the Eyeball will take the Dust Mephit place as NE familiar) is to have Dust Mephit familiars for NPCs in the game. Pooky is an Imp, if I remember well (I haven't played BG2 for years). Do you know if there are other suspicious familiars around? Link to comment
Guest eros Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Lantern Archon seems like an excellent idea, things just getting better it seems I think I might miss that little ferret, but how about a moose? No I'm kidding. But how about using the miniature troll animation? it's just a little green man, and could easily pass off as a treant related lawful forest creature? like maybe a vegepygmy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegepygmy I thought a wood woad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_creatures#Wood_woad could be a possibility until I realised the size might be too big ... maybe someone has some ideas? I can't see a problem with just calling it a wood woad, because the name sounds better than vegepygmy Just trying to be creative sorry if I get carried away Link to comment
Guest eros Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 But how about using the miniature troll animation? it's just a little green man, and could easily pass off as a treant related lawful forest creature? like maybe a vegepygmy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegepygmy Sorry for the double post but as a guest I can't make edits. Just some more information on the vegepygmy http://mark-gedak.livejournal.com/tag/true20 http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.ph...icle&sid=68 maybe with some spore-related abilities similar to the mephits? Link to comment
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