Demivrgvs Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 What we need to avoid (if the Eyeball will take the Dust Mephit place as NE familiar) is to have Dust Mephit familiars for NPCs in the game. Pooky is an Imp, if I remember well (I haven't played BG2 for years). Do you know if there are other suspicious familiars around? I don't remember any, anyway I wouldn't see anything wrong in a less common familiar not available to the player. Lantern Archon seems like an excellent idea, things just getting better it seems I think I might miss that little ferret, but how about a moose? No I'm kidding. The Ferret would be indeed a quite stange familiar amongst the others. I can't allow it to be able to handle a fight, as even against a low level fighter what possibly can a ferret do? I can only think of allowing it to be an excellent scout, with superb pickpocketing abilities, and a good trap detector (and disarmer). But how about using the miniature troll animation? it's just a little green man, and could easily pass off as a treant related lawful forest creature? like maybe a vegepygmy? ... Just trying to be creative sorry if I get carried away I discarded any creature bigger than "tiny" because it seems players don't like to remove the "put familiar in the backpack" feature. I barely tolerate it with pratically any current familiar (except the Ferret and perhaps the Elven Cat) but an almost man sized creature in the backpack is too much for me. Link to comment
Salk Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 The Ferret would be indeed a quite stange familiar amongst the others. I can't allow it to be able to handle a fight, as even against a low level fighter what possibly can a ferret do? I can only think of allowing it to be an excellent scout, with superb pickpocketing abilities, and a good trap detector (and disarmer). Well, if that seems little to you... Link to comment
Guest eros Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 A creature so foul, so cruel, that no man yet has fought with it and lived! Bones of full fifty men lie strewn about it's lair! So brave knights if you do doubt your courage, or your strength, come no further, for death awaits you all, with nasty big pointy teeth!... Well that's no ordinary ferret, that's the most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on! ... Look that ferret's got a vicious streak a mile wide, it's a killer! It'll do you at a treat mate! .... I'm warning you, he's got huge sharp ... he can leap about .... look at the BONES! Run away! Run Away! Dire ferret maybe? Link to comment
Icendoan Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 THE HOLY HAND GRENADE! Icen Link to comment
Salk Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 After some days of silence on this topic I would assume Demivrgvs didn't have time to work on the spell and found no one to help him with the coding. Sad... Link to comment
Jarno Mikkola Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 After some days of silence on this topic I would assume Demivrgvs didn't have time to work on the spell and found no one to help him with the coding. Or Demivrgvs just needs to take his time, to come up with the needed time to mod the creatures... Sad... Ah, but I would say it's better than we constantly kinda bickering what's what in life. Friends? Link to comment
Dakk Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Ah, but I would say it's better than we constantly kinda bickering what's what in life. Aw come on, you and Salk bickering is the only thing that keeps me amused and docile while I lurk for the familiar spell to come to fruition... Link to comment
Salk Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 After some days of silence on this topic I would assume Demivrgvs didn't have time to work on the spell and found no one to help him with the coding. Or Demivrgvs just needs to take his time, to come up with the needed time to mod the creatures... I doubt it. He usually posts here to ask our opinions and updates the topic regularly when he is actively working but hey, maybe you are right this time, what do I know? I remember his two posts where he was asking for coding help since he said he'd have very little time in the next weeks. Link to comment
Demivrgvs Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Sorry, I think I had more or less 5 minutes to mod since my last post! I should have quite some time this week end though. Regarding the possible discussions, the first step was concluded, except perhaps finding a better replacement for the ferret. I encountered a few problems implementing the level ups (e.g. replacing an equipped "weapon" with another one via script) but leaving aside the technical issues I think we could start to discuss how familiars really look like. For example I'm still pondering if assigning an actual class really is better than giving them special abilities a la PnP. Let's see the first familiar I'm going to work on, the Lantern Archon. In PnP it permanently emanates two auras: - Aura of Menace: opponents within 20 feet are affected by a Doom spell - Magic Circle against Evil: allies within 10 feet are affected by a Protection from Evil spell Can cast a few spells at will: - Aid - Detect Evil - Teleport If we decide to give it a class it would certainly be a cleric, and when fully developed its spells may simulate the PnP abilities and offer a few more abilities at higher levels. Possible spells may be: 1° Cure Light Wounds, Doom 2° Aid, Chant, Slow Poison 3° Cure Disease, Remove Paralysis 4° Protection from Evil in 10' radius 5° True Seeing Throw in any suggestion... Link to comment
Dakk Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Me personally I like everything as close to PnP as it can get, within reason... Didn't quite get which way of coding was the hardest on you though? Link to comment
Salk Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 Me personally I like everything as close to PnP as it can get, within reason... Seconded. And as far as PnP goes, the Lantern Archon should also be immune to normal weapons and take only half damage from the magical ones. Link to comment
DavidW Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Me personally I like everything as close to PnP as it can get, within reason... Seconded. And as far as PnP goes, the Lantern Archon should also be immune to normal weapons and take only half damage from the magical ones. This would be hugely overpowered, though. Link to comment
Demivrgvs Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Me personally I like everything as close to PnP as it can get, within reason...Seconded. And as far as PnP goes, the Lantern Archon should also be immune to normal weapons and take only half damage from the magical ones. This would be hugely overpowered, though.Indeed, even in the first half of SoA it would be really too powerful. I do prefer to stay close to PnP as much as I can, but in this case it wouldn't be the best solution imo. Just to give a few examples of why PnP alone isn't the perfect solution: - PnP "powerful" familiars like most of those used in BG should be available at 7th caster level, while I have to scale them to let them be available at 1st level for BG1 users, and thus I would have to tweak them anyway - PnP familiars would be useful at low levels but except few cases (e.g Lantern Archon is one of those because of its auras and ranged attacks) they would be completely useless later on in BG - PnP familiars share any spell the master casts on him/herself (e.g. if the master casts Armor the familiar is affected as well) but this can't be implemented - PnP familiars can deliver touch spells for their masters but this can't be implemented That being said, most of you voted to make Imp and Quasit effective low level mages, which is clearly not as per PnP. That's the only reason I've started to think about giving each familiar a sort of "class", else I can simply grant them special abilities and qualities a la PnP. Link to comment
Jarno Mikkola Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 For example I'm still pondering if ... The ability to cast spells at will with Aid is like giving permanent healing ability, "who needs a cleric anymore I have a Lantern Archon", and can you even make auras effects that actually work? I like the character class-ed familiar approach. But the problem her is also that the hit points etc will probably make each familiar level up thing really hard to code. ...the Lantern Archon should also be immune to normal weapons and take only half damage from the magical ones.This would be hugely overpowered, though. Well, not... if the Archon would get it at level 20, but at level 1 it's clearly overpowered of course. Link to comment
Salk Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 That being said, most of you voted to make Imp and Quasit effective low level mages, which is clearly not as per PnP. That's the only reason I've started to think about giving each familiar a sort of "class", else I can simply grant them special abilities and qualities a la PnP. Me, I am not much for giving familiars a sort of "class" at all. It was just suggested to see familiars tend towards a specific class because of their nature. I would stick to PnP without bothering dividing the familiars into classes though. Of course some tweakings might be needed to make the familiars equally useful from the beginning (BG1) to the end (ToB). I know this can be tricky but making them gain some specific PnP powers only later on (like Jarno suggested for the Lantern Archon) might be a solution. And this is how it works for kits' innates after all... Link to comment
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