Familiar Revision

[DavidW]

I really wonder how you can think people can understand you (might as well be my limit of course).

 

First you write that he is active just because he's logged in once after months to write that there is no modding done and then you say that "it doesn't take a genius to think, that if you send a message to him, he wouldn't reply just because he isn't there."

Perhaps it's your lack of knowledge, but if one logs into a forum, they usually get a great note that they have reseaved a PM. Hmm, or does it really take a genius like me to conduct the lines of thought on that? :p And I think that Rabain logs in to his forums, just to see if he has reseaved PMs, not to actually do anything else, nessesarily.

Besides that, he has been there at least 2 time in the last two days. So, he keeps a schedule... with his log out times.

 

Dear jarno,

 

I am certainly no genius but I have received and sent PMs on different forums so I know how it works.

 

Said that, I ask you again: how do you think that reading a message or logging in on a Forum ties to being actively modding?

 

The activity at the Border Kingdoms can be described with only one word: non-existant.

 

And it has been so for months.

 

Now let me point out this again: Rabain posted once after months just to say that there is no activity there. I provided the link above but perhaps it helps if I copy-paste it here:

 

Rabain:"Not really, I'm around and pop in every few days but no work is being done currently on anything."

 

Do you think you know more than Rabain himself if there is or not activity at the website he has created?

 

Really, you are a genius...

 

The logic, I think, is that since he presumably is reading PMs and therefore is contactable (even if he doesn't reply), it's impolite to borrow content from his mod without permission. (I'm not necessarily endorsing the argument, just clarifying it.)

[Salk]

Demi,

 

one thing you might want to check is how Find Familiar might give the caster a choice from a pool of three familiars close to his alignment.

 

Here's a proposed table:

 

Caster		 Alternative1		 Alternative2		 Alternative3

LG				  LG						LN						NG
NG				  NG						TN						CG
CG				  CG						CN						NG

LE				  LE						LN						NE
NE				  NE						TN						CE
CE				  CE						CN						NE

LN				  LN						LE						LG
TN				  TN						NE						NG
CN				  CN						CE						CG

Hope you like it...

[Salk]

The logic, I think, is that since he presumably is reading PMs and therefore is contactable (even if he doesn't reply), it's impolite to borrow content from his mod without permission. (I'm not necessarily endorsing the argument, just clarifying it.)

 

Absolutely!

 

But what I meant to say is that there is no connection between the fact that Rabain reads or not his PMs with his modding activity.

 

What I just stated was that there is no modding activity going on at Border Kingdoms. What I was speculating instead was that Rabain wouldn't mind having his code borrowed.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Said that, I ask you again: how do you think that reading a message or logging in on a Forum ties to being actively modding?

Hmm, again I really have to bent this from a steel bar...

 

So the premise is that Demivrgvs wants to do something about the Familiars in the Spell Revisions, then you are the one who suggests that he should use Rabains mod as a "working base" to build upon(if I understood the message right). But for that Demivrgvs needs Rabains permission, as he is one of the 'good decent kind of moders'... and then one says this:

Yeah - I also wondered if Border Kingdoms were dead...

And I say no. etc.

 

The logic, I think, is that since he presumably is reading PMs and therefore is contactable (even if he doesn't reply), it's impolite to borrow content from his mod without permission. (I'm not necessarily endorsing the argument, just clarifying it.)

Exactly.

 

What I was speculating instead was that Rabain wouldn't mind having his code borrowed.

Well, if you ask him, you don't have to speculate.

[Demivrgvs]

Just so you know...

 

I've decided to work on familiars from scratch, because as DavidW says "it's impolite to borrow content from his mod without permission". The only things that I'd still like to use are bams for familiar's portraits, but I would have liked to completely revise creatures and level up system anyway, thus doing everything myself probably end up being better.

 

The good news for those who cannot care less of familiars is that I've agreed with Mike that we'll upload a V2.9 (as soon as I and Mike get into contact again) which contains everything except Familiars. I think few players are interested in that spell and thus would welcome the pre-release, but still I'd like to release a "complete" V3 rather than having to add such a noticeable spell only a week or two later in a hotfix. Another "advantage" is that every eventual issue with V2.9 discovered in these weeks won't affect the official V3.

[Salk]

Demi,

 

It sounds like the perfect solution.

 

But just to make things clear: have you or not sent a PM to Rabain asking for permission?

 

After all, even a partial use of his mod (bam and wav files) means borrowed material.

 

By the way, do you approve of my proposed alignment table above?

 

I'd like to contribute as I can to this spell since it's obvious that I am one of those who care the most about it.

[Ardanis]

Salk, I think you and Jarno are talking about different things. You've said that there were no notable (if any) activity, while he mentioned that despite the forum being mostly dead Rabain still was there and seemed to receive the message.

 

PS Damn my accursed guts, yet another post of mine without reading the nextpage. Gah.

[Salk]

Yes, Ardanis, you are right.

 

I apologize for having been rude.

[Salk]

Demi,

 

you whistle once you are ready to go through this spell.

[Demivrgvs]

Let's start to seriously discuss this revision.

 

But just to make things clear: have you or not sent a PM to Rabain asking for permission?

Yes I did.

 

By the way, do you approve of my proposed alignment table above?

I think it's ok, though I thought we decided for only one familiar per alignment...anyway this isn't a problem to code, only a lot more work.

 

The main issues imo is balancing familiars at low levels.

 

Some of these creatures are really too powerful at low levels, even if we reduce them to the minimum stats displayed in the monsters books (especially Faerie/Pseudo Dragon, Imp and Quasit). We'll probably have to either make the spell unusable for the first few levels (at least until 3rd - 5th level), or strip these creatures of most of their well known abilities.

 

Which solution do you prefer? I'd vote for the former, as a 1st level creature with 2-4 hit points isn't going anywhere imo, and balancing things like Pseudo Dragon's sleep attack, or Faerie Dragon's permanent improved invisibility to be not overpowered against very low level opponents in BG1 is almost impossible.

[Salk]

Well, to start with, a very good rebalancing method, as I mentioned, is to let the Familiar level up for every levelling up of the Master so that we can start with a very low HP value (something like 1D3 / level). I know you replied elsewhere that it'd be enough making the familiar level up every 3-5 levels of the caster but I still think that, if it's not much trouble, the former solution still is the best.

 

With such low initial HPs, no player would even think of having them out of their pack to use their spells.

 

About the stats, I would suggest you to keep the minimum PnP stats.

 

To strip the creatures of their PnP abilities is something I'd not like to see but delaying the acquiring of the abilities is a good solution. We could build a table for each familiar and see when they get their abilities and set them in a .2da file.

 

About having one familiar for one alignment, that is my preferencem yes.

 

And also my preference is to let only the main character have a familiar. It doesn't make much sense in terms of logic, but it does in terms of gameplay and balance.

[Guest eros]

Is it possible to have the familiars selectable by alignment similar to that in rabain's mod? I'm just looking through all of this and I like the idea of being able to select the fairy dragon as a neutral good player, yet I would like the option of the LG and CG alignments as well, tbh the pseudo dragon and -I guess- the cat also have appeal, but it is more about the similarity of alignment. I'm not sure what players of characters with the lower alignments would prefer, but i think those three being linked is important.

 

I understand that other players might have a desire to follow the other aspect, perhaps like salk has recommended a .2da file could be included which could be altered so as to switch between following morality and harmony (I mean lawfulness and goodness).

 

I understand this may be a lot of work in coding, and as an amatuer in this regard, if what I am suggesting is not possible then it is understandable, and rabain's option is always there to install after SR right

 

I think keeping base pnp stats is also a very good idea. I'm not sure if the balance will be so much of a problem in BG1, as at that point the character levels up very quickly, and begins with only imoen after all, so another strong party-member for a puny wizard will be very helpful in defeating what are relatively truly monstrously difficult little bears and wolves.

 

with those inherent abilities backing them up, I think would balance out with the nerfed hp, which is what the mage himself could be on prior to summoning the familiar (and then only increased by 1-2hp I guess, bringing him in line with the more-combat ready players minus the THAC0 and with only the addition of a single magic missle!) Really, I think that the familar is almost needed at these levels to save one from reloading or avoiding combat, especially with SCS increasing the difficulty and preventing one from pulling single opponents. I would prefer not to have to leave the familar in the pack as we do currently, so the auto-hide on 25% health I think creates a good balance also, in that a low lvl familar is useful as long as it is stealthy, or invisible, or with good micro-management, but quickly get's taken out of the fight so as not to be a constant bonus, but an intermittent one.

 

I very much like the idea of only the PC summoning a familiar, for balance reasons also.

[Jarno Mikkola]

In my view, the familiar needs to be abled to be chosen. By alignment if necessary.

At low caster/familiar levels, they don't need spells, but they need creater hitpoints than 10.

So I would give them 12 hit points + 2 or 3 hit points per caster/familiar level until they hit level 10 and after +1 hitpoint per level.

They would gain the offencive spell at level 3, 5(the second use of it).

The Defensive spell at levels 4 and 6.

And special spell or ability at levels 9, 12. Note, the Pseudo Dragon would gain the sleeping attack here. And the spell list is based on re-make of this table.

Now, as the familiars don't have to be so good hitters as normal fighters, they can start by having low attack damage and gaining it and Thac0 slowly(mages table), but their hit should improve into magically enhanced +1, +2, +3's at set levels (I suggest: 7, 13, 20).

[Demivrgvs]

Ok, I assume that choosing between more than one familiar is a must.

 

Regarding their abilities, having them gain a few spell-like abilities with levels is not that bad, though things like innate resistances and immunities most of the times doesn't make sense if not granted to the base creature. I'll think about it, what is sure here is that most of you want me to work on these creatures for a lot of time!!

 

At low caster/familiar levels, they don't need spells, but they need creater hitpoints than 10.

So I would give them 12 hit points + 2 or 3 hit points per caster/familiar level until they hit level 10 and after +1 hitpoint per level.

12 hit points at 1st level is surely too much, it's convenient but out of place for a familiar to have twice the hit points of his master (familiars have one half of their master's hit points in PnP). Not to mention that 12 hp would make them on pair with a fighter, and as tough as most 1st - 2nd level characters.

 

Now, as the familiars don't have to be so good hitters as normal fighters, they can start by having low attack damage and gaining it and Thac0 slowly(mages table), but their hit should improve into magically enhanced +1, +2, +3's at set levels (I suggest: 7, 13, 20).

Yeah, some more work!! I agree though.

[Demivrgvs]

Ok, I still haven't work on scripts at all, but I have in mind more or less what has to be done now. I hope Mike will find some time to help me with the scripts though.

 

To give a general guideline a lvl 1 Pseudodragon may have the following stats:

* STR 9, DEX 16, CON 13, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 10

* 8 hit points

* AC 2

* THAC0 20

* 2 attacks per round (50% chance on hit to cause sleep for 5 rounds, save at +2 neg.)

* Magic Resistance 35%

 

At 6th, 12th and 18th level its "non-magical weapon" may be replaced with a +1, +2, and +3 version respectively. The save to avoid unconsciousness is also improved, something like no bonus with the +1 "weapon", -2 penalty with the +2, and -4 penalty with the last upgrade.

 

Every 2 caster level the familiar would gain 1 level, granting:

* +4 to maximum hit points

* +1 bonus to armor class

* +1 bonus to THAC0

* +2% magic resistance

 

Resulting in a 10HD Pseudodragon at 20th level, with:

* STR 9, DEX 16, CON 13, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 10

* 48 hit points

* AC -8

* THAC0 10

* 2 attacks per round (50% chance on hit to cause sleep for 5 rounds, save at -4 neg.)

* Magic Resistance 55%

 

Pseudodragon's innate resistances include immunity to sleep and paralysis. I think these qualities shouldn't be gained with levels, but I'd like to know what you think about it.

 

I'd also like to differentiate each familiar as much as possible, and in PnP Pseudodragons don't have spell-like abilities at all. We may keep this feature and offset it granting this familiar additional hit point and better thac0 (though it also already has the highest innate magic resistance amongst familiars), or something like that. This familiar could be the "warrior type", while for example the Faerie Dragon would be a "caster type", and the Cat "stalker type". What do you think about it? Do you prefer the more standard system used by vanilla and WTP?