Congratulations!

[Salk]

Hello!

 

I want to congratulate Demivrgvs and mike1072 for the release of the long-anticipated Item Revisions!

 

My questions:

 

the global changes (the ones patching) can be a bit tricky to understand where exactly they should be installed in the mods' order list because some Tweaks Mod I regularly install do add items. Among them, there is also the BG2 Tweaks which, in the read me, is mentioned as Mod to be installed after the global changes. But its component "Exotic Items" to say one, is certainly going to add weapons. Are there any more precise guidelines you can give us or should we just use our common sense (I am scared!)?

 

Also: are all those changes that affect the player also affecting the enemies so that they can be considered really "fair"? Example: if I install restrictions to Druids wearing metal helmets, am I guaranteed that NPC druids also follow the same rule? Another example: do movement and dexterity penalties apply to NPCs as well?

 

Last question: I will be using this mod exclusively with BGT so I want to ask you if there might be identical items in the BG and the BG2 parts of the game that behave differently. It would be a big let-down.

 

Thanks for everything!

[Mike1072]

I want to congratulate Demivrgvs and mike1072 for the release of the long-anticipated Item Revisions!

Woo! Releasing mods! Yeah!

 

the global changes (the ones patching) can be a bit tricky to understand where exactly they should be installed in the mods' order list because some Tweaks Mod I regularly install do add items. Among them, there is also the BG2 Tweaks which, in the read me, is mentioned as Mod to be installed after the global changes. But its component "Exotic Items" to say one, is certainly going to add weapons. Are there any more precise guidelines you can give us or should we just use our common sense (I am scared!)?

Woops, I had forgotten about Exotic Items. The only global component that should be affected by installing IR after Tweaks is the multi-class cleric weapon proficiency change - if you have a Fighter/Cleric, our component will let you put 2 stars into swords, but it currently doesn't check if the multi-class grandmastery tweak is installed, so you won't be getting 5 stars. This was not well thought-out, so the new recommendation will be to install global changes after any mod that adds items, BG2 Tweak Pack included. The readme has been updated, and I will re-code that other component to detect the multi-class grandmastery component of Tweak Pack so there should be no problems.

 

Also: are all those changes that affect the player also affecting the enemies so that they can be considered really "fair"? Example: if I install restrictions to Druids wearing metal helmets, am I guaranteed that NPC druids also follow the same rule? Another example: do movement and dexterity penalties apply to NPCs as well?

Some are, some aren't. I've made no checks on NPCs for the druid and fighter/druid changes, but this is a cool idea. All components that directly affect item abilities (changing damages, armor class, dexterity penalties, etc.) should apply to opponents with the items equipped. I do not install the movement speed changes myself, so if someone wants to give feedback on whether they happen to be screwing up the enemies, that's something that might be better restricted to players.

 

Last question: I will be using this mod exclusively with BGT so I want to ask you if there might be identical items in the BG and the BG2 parts of the game that behave differently. It would be a big let-down.

Right now the support for BG1 is pretty minimal. Demi has changed more of the BG1 items since I playtested it in BGT way back when (even back then, it had items like the SS of Backstabbing and Helm of Balduran using his versions), but I'm not sure if he got everything - he doesn't play BG1 so it's a bit harder for him to create items and test there. I plan to make him play through Tutu so he gets a feel for the differences and then force him to make the Tutu/BGT experience as good or better than what he's made for BG2. Don't tell him just yet. Anyway, what we decided was to get the SoA/ToB and global parts of the mod out, and come back and do a proper job for BG1 afterwards.

 

Thanks for everything!

You're welcome.

[Raj]

congratulations !

 

Any word about compatibility with the revised armors from refinements and recommended install order? I'd like to use most of IR components but keep the dexterity penalities from refinements.

[Salk]

Also: are all those changes that affect the player also affecting the enemies so that they can be considered really "fair"? Example: if I install restrictions to Druids wearing metal helmets, am I guaranteed that NPC druids also follow the same rule? Another example: do movement and dexterity penalties apply to NPCs as well?

Some are, some aren't. I've made no checks on NPCs for the druid and fighter/druid changes, but this is a cool idea. All components that directly affect item abilities (changing damages, armor class, dexterity penalties, etc.) should apply to opponents with the items equipped. I do not install the movement speed changes myself, so if someone wants to give feedback on whether they happen to be screwing up the enemies, that's something that might be better restricted to players.

 

I acutally would want to see enemies having exactly the same restrictions: having their dexterity or movement penalized when wearing heavy armour is something I would really want. Fair is fair :-) ...

[Demivrgvs]

the global changes (the ones patching) can be a bit tricky to understand where exactly they should be installed in the mods' order list because some Tweaks Mod I regularly install do add items. Among them, there is also the BG2 Tweaks which, in the read me, is mentioned as Mod to be installed after the global changes. But its component "Exotic Items" to say one, is certainly going to add weapons. Are there any more precise guidelines you can give us or should we just use our common sense (I am scared!)?

Well...generally speaking all tweaks should be installed as late as possible. IR's tweaks need to be installed after any mod-added items in order to be able to patch them. Items added after IR's tweaks aren't affected as the patch can't affect something that isn't already there. I hope to have been more clear, perhaps Mike can explain this better than me.

Example: if I install restrictions to Druids wearing metal helmets, am I guaranteed that NPC druids also follow the same rule?

If they already had them equipped patching their .cre files is required to remove/replace them. Mike's material.

Another example: do movement and dexterity penalties apply to NPCs as well?

Yes.

Last question: I will be using this mod exclusively with BGT so I want to ask you if there might be identical items in the BG and the BG2 parts of the game that behave differently. It would be a big let-down.

They will look exactly the same.

I plan to make him play through Tutu so he gets a feel for the differences and then force him to make the Tutu/BGT experience as good or better than what he's made for BG2. Don't tell him just yet.

Good to know you've planned my future game! Anyway, I really should.

Any word about compatibility with the revised armors from refinements and recommended install order?

Just don't install IR's respective tweaks, I'm quite sure Refinements will patch IR's Items if you install it after IR's main component. Anyway IR's armors are designed with IR's encumberance penalties, I cannot guarantee anymore their balance when used with Refinement's changes, especially because of the added physical resistance bonuses.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Last question: I will be using this mod exclusively with BGT so I want to ask you if there might be identical items in the BG and the BG2 parts of the game that behave differently. It would be a big let-down.

They will look exactly the same.

This is true, as long as we are talking about items that Demivrgvs has played with(so some of the mod items might have slipped out), or the BGT, as it uses the same exact items as in BGII, so the plat01.itm(platemail armor) is the same in BGT's BGI part as in BGII's, unlike in BGTutu/EasyTutu, as the item used is in fact totally different: _plat01.itm .

 

Ah, congratulations!

[Guest Guest]

Would things be easier if "Exotic Items" was an optional component in this mod? I'm sure the BG2 Tweaks authors wouldn't mind you including it if that led to an easier install process.

[Mike1072]

Would things be easier if "Exotic Items" was an optional component in this mod? I'm sure the BG2 Tweaks authors wouldn't mind you including it if that led to an easier install process.

This is not needed. From now on, the global components in Item Revisions should be installed after BG2 Tweak Pack, so that items added in this component (and any any others?) in Tweaks will be modified. The hotfixes change our Multi-class Clerics Proficiency component to properly account for whether the Tweak Pack's Multi-class Grandmastery component is installed, so there should be nothing dissuading you from installing it afterwards.

[Shaitan]

Does IR overall makes the game harder, easier ... or is it by any chance the same?

[Demivrgvs]

Does IR overall makes the game harder, easier ... or is it by any chance the same?

Good question. The goal is to make it more entertaining, and to allow a lot more variety. It shouldn't affect difficulty too much, but I can make some considerations:

 

1) overpowered items should have been nerfed

2) the global level of usefulness/power of items has been enhanced

 

Thus, 1) should make the game harder, especially for soloers, but 2) means that a full party should end up slightly better equipped. I don't know which one of these two effects is more prominent, but surely I'll try to balance them out in future releases.

 

Players' feedback is the most important thing for this mod, as balancing all items by myself isn't very simple!

 

 

P.S Obviously BG without a mod like SCS will always be easy, no matter how much I limit powerful items.