Protection from Acid/Cold/Electricity/Fire

[Demivrgvs]

I've done a lot of work on these spells and I've completed and tested 4 new .spl files to add them to priests as 5th level spells. Anyway I'd like to discuss them because there are many things that can be said on their implementation.

 

In vanilla these spells are handled in a very strange way, their spell level is the same as AD&D edition but their effectiveness is actually much higher, and both things really doesn't make sense imo. Wizards get Protection from Fire/Cold as 3rd level spells, and Protection from Acid/Electricity as 5th level spells. Priests get only Protection from Fire as 3rd level spell and Protection from Electricity at 4th, and I really don't know why they shouldn't get the other two spells.

 

Two noticeable differences make PnP's version of these spells much weaker than BG's ones:

- if casted on someone other than the caster they grant half the protection (50%)

- after 10 points of damage per level of the caster are absorbed the spell is deplenished, while BG version can protect up to infinite damage making them really too effective against high damaging spells (e.g. even multiple Meteor Swarms are absorbed! )

 

In conclusion the question is, which spell level would be the more appropriate for these spells? Keeping in mind that they can be casted on others, they last 10 rounds/level and SR's ones will also have a "new feature" I think 5th level is perfect for both arcane and divine version of these spells.

 

The "new feature" I'm talking about is that these spells will not only provide 100% damage protection, but also block side effects caused by elemental based spells. For example Protection from Cold would prevent slowness caused by Ice Storm, Protection from Fire would prevent blindness caused by Incendiary Cloud, and so on.

 

Now comes the only issue I have to face with my suggested revision, I don't know a way to remove the old 3rd level Protection from Fire/Cold from a wizard's spell selection during character creation in BG2. Does anyone know a trick to remove them from there while leaving the spells "working" in case the AI want to use them?

[Raj]

In conclusion the question is, which spell level would be the more appropriate for these spells? Keeping in mind that they can be casted on others, they last 10 rounds/level and SR's ones will also have a "new feature" I think 5th level is perfect for both arcane and divine version of these spells.

 

Level 5 for the arcane version is fine. Level 4 for the divine one seems appropriate as a bonus for the usual protection/nature clichè of priest spells, but both 4 and 5 divine levels share spells of similar power so doesn't really matter, 5 is fine for them too.

 

Btw, if you change those spells then protection from elements/energy could use the same improvment ( 100% res + immunity to spell effects ) because they already use higher level slots and last 1 round/lev ( and are almost never used ).

 

Now comes the only issue I have to face with my suggested revision, I don't know a way to remove the old 3rd level Protection from Fire/Cold from a wizard's spell selection during character creation in BG2. Does anyone know a trick to remove them from there while leaving the spells "working" in case the AI want to use them?

 

I have no clue, btw is this issue present only at character creation? Looks like a minor nuisance, could be hotfixed in future don't let this stop you Guys at Divine Remix might have the answer I guess.

[lac]

removing spells but leaving them around in case the AI wants them

 

What happens when you change the spell level of a spell? Could you make Protection from Fire or Cold a 8th level spell (or anything hjigh enough to not be there at character creation time) -- and would that remove it from character creation? And then at startup the game time, could you move them back to being 3rd level spells?

 

Just an idea from somebody who has no clue how the mechanics of such things works.

[Ardanis]

Does anyone know a trick to remove them from there while leaving the spells "working" in case the AI want to use them?

AI usually uses ids references rather than spl filenames. Changing "2319 WIZARD_PROTECTION_FROM_FIRE" enrty to "2527 ..." (or whichever is free) might work. I must say however, that I have no confirmed knowledge of how ids really work, so some testing may be needed. And of course I recall some mods (IA has or had it, for example) use slightly different names (like WIZ_PRO_FIRE or near that). Manual work will be needed for SR and a need to be installed the last.

[Demivrgvs]

Is it true that scrolls of Protection from Fire and Protection from Cold didn't exist in BG1?

 

If so my only problem to move these spells to 5th level (where Protection from Acid/Electricity have always been) would be the character creation screen in BG2, where I don't think I can take away the 3rd level version. Am I wrong?

 

Last but not least, if I can't remove these spells I'll make them Resist Fire/Cold respectively, else I may just allow them to do exactly what their 5th level versions do, which allow the AI a little advantage.

[Raj]

Last but not least, if I can't remove these spells I'll make them Resist Fire/Cold respectively, else I may just allow them to do exactly what their 5th level versions do, which allow the AI a little advantage.

 

I was hoping the AI used the same spell players do, aka the 100%+no dmg animation feature.

[Demivrgvs]

Last but not least, if I can't remove these spells I'll make them Resist Fire/Cold respectively, else I may just allow them to do exactly what their 5th level versions do, which allow the AI a little advantage.

I was hoping the AI used the same spell players do, aka the 100%+no dmg animation feature.

Yeah, that's what I'd like to do.

 

I've found a way to remove the 3rd level version fom character creation screen, and it indeed work: making the very spwi319/320.spl files level 5 spells instead of creating new spells. The problem is that a creature which already had those spells memorized as 3rd level spells won't be able to cast them, at least manually (when you select the spell nothing happens). I have to try if casting them via script works, which would be perfect as obviously it's the only way the AI cast spells.

 

Not a single creature have these two spells memorized in vanilla BG1, BG2, and ToB. Can anyone confirm me if RR and SCS use them?

[Demivrgvs]

Nevermind...I've almost solved it. I've found a way to make the 3rd level versions of these spells non-selectable at character creation using an absurd value instead of a correct value to flag opposition school. The only very minor issue which remain is that they do appear on the character creation screen when you have to chose which spells the character already knows, but they are considered as belonging to the opposition school to any mage kit, and to plain mages too.

 

Except this minor issue everything else should be fine, scrolls will add the 5th level versions instead of the 3rd level ones to spellbooks, and if any AI script calls for the old 3rd level spells it will simply cast a copy of the 5th level ones.

 

I may even dare to say V3 is proceeding better than I expected!

[Jarno Mikkola]

Well, if the 5th level spell can give 100% resistance to 1 character, then why not put 50% to the 3 level spell ti the one character... all none cumulative.

And by the way, you really need to re-do the whole resistance system for items and potions as the opcode allows that, it just needs to be done to all the items.

[Raj]

''You really need'' to solve a lot of non-existing issues Demi.

[Shaitan]

Is it true that scrolls of Protection from Fire and Protection from Cold didn't exist in BG1

The green ones or the blue (wizard) ones? The magescroll didn't excist in Bg1 like many other BG2 spells. I'd bet that DavidW knows which excists in BG2 and not BG1. The green scrolls was avialable in BG1.

 

Cheers

[Demivrgvs]

Well, if the 5th level spell can give 100% resistance to 1 character, then why not put 50% to the 3 level spell ti the one character... all none cumulative.

And by the way, you really need to re-do the whole resistance system for items and potions as the opcode allows that, it just needs to be done to all the items.

''You really need'' to solve a lot of non-existing issues Demi.

Well...it's not that it would be bad to have those spells at 3rd level, it's just that it would be almost useless. Veteran and hardcore players have always considered even Resist Fire/Cold barely decent (though I think it's not bad at all), and it's a 2nd level spell which grants 50% resistance to two different types of energy. A complete immunity which last very long is a completely different matter instead, especially with SR's added protections from spells, because it offers much wider opportunities (e.g. fighting within its own Acid Fog, un-interrupted casting if affected by a spell which deals a type of damage to which you're immune, ...).

 

Anyway...long story short, it wouldn't be a noticeable improvement on gameplay imo, it would involve considerable time (e.g. we don't have bams for all these spells), and it wouldn't even be possible for mages because the maximum number of spells per level (25) is already reached for 3rd level slots.

 

Is it true that scrolls of Protection from Fire and Protection from Cold didn't exist in BG1

The green ones or the blue (wizard) ones? The magescroll didn't excist in Bg1 like many other BG2 spells. I'd bet that DavidW knows which excists in BG2 and not BG1. The green scrolls was avialable in BG1.

Yeah, I was referring to mage's scrolls, which shouldn't exist in BG1 as the spells didn't existed.

 

Speaking of the green scrolls...should they be improved to match these spells?

[Raj]

Speaking of the green scrolls...should they be improved to match these spells?

 

Please