unholy word

[DrAzTiK]

I find this spell terrible for good alignement low level party. (I play with less XP ). Pit fiends are especially very difficult to beat.

 

Is there a way for me to forbid ennemy to use this spell?

 

ty

[Shaitan]

Somewhere Demi put a way to comment out spells you didn't like.

[Demivrgvs]

I find this spell terrible for good alignement low level party. (I play with less XP ). Pit fiends are especially very difficult to beat.

Not that I mind to much about having extremely tough Pit Fiends considering that in PnP they are amazingly powerful (SCSII does a good job too when it comes to restore demonic creatures abilities). If you want to handle them in SR you should have at least a mid-level party, possibly with a cleric or a paladin with Cure Disease and Remove Paralysis memorized. I know Cure Disease probably never was necessary in vanilla, but you have to adapt somewhat and re-think many of your spell choices and tactics when you play a game with SR+SCS.

 

Regarding Unholy Word itself, would you suggest to nerf it somehow?

 

Is there a way for me to forbid ennemy to use this spell?

Somewhere Demi put a way to comment out spells you didn't like.

You can comment out spells you don't like yes, the readme makes it very clear (but that doesn't mean you can forbid enemies to use the spell, they'll still use the vanilla version of it).

[DrAzTiK]

Unholy word: Up to caster level -10 -- Killed, paralyzed, blinded, deafened

 

With SCSII, pit fiend are level 24 and use unholy word. (liches and some priest too) It 's a bit difficult to avoid being killed by a 30 feet aera spell (time casting 1) in my game. lol

 

Maybe kill effect is a bit too much ...

[Demivrgvs]

Each and every spell is capped at 20th level, thus even if Pit Fiend in SCSII are level 24 (actually I've done the same too in most recent versions for "conceptual compatibilities" between the two mods) the 'kill effect' can affect only creatures with 10HD or less. Death Spell does the same for opponents with 8HD or less.

 

You shouldn't face Pit Fiends with characters lower than 11th level imo, but it was pointed out that some powerful creatures like Beholders and Mind Flayers use low HD values for some reason, and thus I agree we should find a way to nerf this spell. Would allowing a save (at -6 penalty) be ok?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Would allowing a save (at -6 penalty) be ok?

Well, depending on the effect, yes. As for example, killing or deaffening some one temperarelly are a little bit different things, wouldn't you say... so without any knowledge of how the spell works I'll give you a suggestion... damage *first half* -12 save, deafen with -8 save, damage second half -6 save, blind with -4 save, paralyze with 0 save, kill with +4 save... as said, just a suggestion.

[DrAzTiK]

It seems a good idea, but unoly word don't provide damage, isn't it ? and what about :

 

Killed 0 save

paralyzed - 2 save

blinded - 4 save

deafened -6 save

 

Like Jarno, just a suggestion . ^^

[Guest newuser01]

Each and every spell is capped at 20th level, thus even if Pit Fiend in SCSII are level 24 (actually I've done the same too in most recent versions for "conceptual compatibilities" between the two mods) the 'kill effect' can affect only creatures with 10HD or less. Death Spell does the same for opponents with 8HD or less.

 

You shouldn't face Pit Fiends with characters lower than 11th level imo, but it was pointed out that some powerful creatures like Beholders and Mind Flayers use low HD values for some reason, and thus I agree we should find a way to nerf this spell. Would allowing a save (at -6 penalty) be ok?

 

Is Dispel Magic also capped at lv 20?

[Demivrgvs]

It seems a good idea, but unoly word don't provide damage, isn't it ? and what about :

 

Killed 0 save

paralyzed - 2 save

blinded - 4 save

deafened -6 save

 

Like Jarno, just a suggestion . ^^

Yeah, it doesn't provide damage and I'd like to keep it as similar as we can to its PnP version and vanilla version. I like DrAzTiK values better, deafness and blindness should still connect quite enough imo, while effects like paralyze and death which almost ends the fight would affect only mid-low level creatures, and with an easier save creatures like Beholders and Mind Flyers would have more chance to avoid being wiped out by a single spell.

 

It still remains unimplemented the 'banish extraplanar creatures' effect, but I don't know how to implement it in a way that doesn't clash with SCSII's "demons aren't affected by protection from evil" tweak.

 

Is Dispel Magic also capped at lv 20?

Good catch, it isn't (because it currently works with an auto-adaptive opcode instead of multiple headers like all other spells). I suggested to add the cap to "nerf" it, and especially to limit uber-high level effectiveness of some SCSII opponents, but for some reason we didn't opt for implementing it. Look here if you're interested on our discussion.

[Guest Splawheel]

It seems a good idea, but unoly word don't provide damage, isn't it ? and what about :

 

Killed 0 save

paralyzed - 2 save

blinded - 4 save

deafened -6 save

 

Like Jarno, just a suggestion . ^^

Yeah, it doesn't provide damage and I'd like to keep it as similar as we can to its PnP version and vanilla version. I like DrAzTiK values better, deafness and blindness should still connect quite enough imo, while effects like paralyze and death which almost ends the fight would affect only mid-low level creatures, and with an easier save creatures like Beholders and Mind Flyers would have more chance to avoid being wiped out by a single spell.

 

It still remains unimplemented the 'banish extraplanar creatures' effect, but I don't know how to implement it in a way that doesn't clash with SCSII's "demons aren't affected by protection from evil" tweak.

 

Is Dispel Magic also capped at lv 20?

Good catch, it isn't (because it currently works with an auto-adaptive opcode instead of multiple headers like all other spells). I suggested to add the cap to "nerf" it, and especially to limit uber-high level effectiveness of some SCSII opponents, but for some reason we didn't opt for implementing it. Look here if you're interested on our discussion.

 

Was this spell ever nerfed with the saves either Draztiks or others. Just went up against a nameless lich in a confined space and as they usually do in their first time stop gates in a Pit Fiend. My party is btw 11 & 14th level (SCSII also installed too) and since the area we are in is small, every one is affected by Pit Fiends insta-unholy word. All paralyzed and slowed (not blinded or deafened as mentioned in this post), and within a few rounds devoured by the original pit fiend, a second pit fiend, and four glabrezu. Did the party just all fail the save roll or does unholy word still not have saves b/c it is pretty much an insta-death spell for a good party as there isn't any way to buff against it without saving rolls. I guess I'm trying to figure out if I should turn off the SR version or just avoid liches like the plague until my parties save values are dramatically improved. Conceptually I like this revamping of the spell b/c in vanilla it didn't ever seem to do anything by the time you where at a level to start casting it. Possibly decreasing the duration of the paralysis might make the spell not so overpowered, just a suggestion. Thanks.

[Demivrgvs]

Was this spell ever nerfed with the saves either Draztiks or others. Just went up against a nameless lich in a confined space and as they usually do in their first time stop gates in a Pit Fiend. My party is btw 11 & 14th level (SCSII also installed too) and since the area we are in is small, every one is affected by Pit Fiends insta-unholy word. All paralyzed and slowed (not blinded or deafened as mentioned in this post), and within a few rounds devoured by the original pit fiend, a second pit fiend, and four glabrezu.

Two pit fiends and four glabrezus?!? I do hope SCS doesn't use them so heavily!

 

Anyway, this spell still doesn't allow a save yes, but I kinda agreed that something could be done to tone it down a little. That being said, I kinda like that liches and dragons can annihilate mid lvl parties.

 

P.S Unholy Word has a slow effect instead of blindness, don't ask me why.

 

Conceptually I like this revamping of the spell b/c in vanilla it didn't ever seem to do anything by the time you where at a level to start casting it. Possibly decreasing the duration of the paralysis might make the spell not so overpowered, just a suggestion. Thanks

Lowering the duration could work, as well as allowing a save like Draztik suggested. I'll surely do something about it for V4.

[Ardanis]

Going with low-level party against a SCS lich, and then complaning about being rightfully obliterated sounds inconsistent to me. Besides, the only 'obligatory' lich is from Edwin's quest, who has been specifically nerfed to be doable earlier.

 

Allowing a save... In Yaga-Shura Battle Royale I've found a most excellent use for Holy Word - to kill those crowds of footmen, when they began to swarm. Probably the only place ever where a high-level priest can indeed show himself and smite hordes of infidels into the ground with one single word. Feels very RP, and I for one would hate to lose this little feature.

 

Nothing bad about reducing the duration, imo the spell's main advantage is the casting speed of 1 and no save and/or MR check.

[DrAzTiK]

P.S Unholy Word has a slow effect instead of blindness, don't ask me why.

Maybe description should be uptaded so.

I have also tested holy word and it seems that ennemy are not affeted by deafness ( I check with CTRL+D) .

[Demivrgvs]

P.S Unholy Word has a slow effect instead of blindness, don't ask me why.

Maybe description should be uptaded so.

It's already fine.

 

Target's Hit Dice -- Effects of Unholy Word
Equal to caster level -- Deafness
Up to caster level -1 -- Slowness, deafness
Up to caster level -5 -- Paralyzation, slowness, deafness
Up to caster level -10 -- Death, paralyzation, slowness, deafness

 

I have also tested holy word and it seems that ennemy are not affeted by deafness ( I check with CTRL+D) .

Strange, I'll look into it.

[DarkWon]

Going with low-level party against a SCS lich, and then complaning about being rightfully obliterated sounds inconsistent to me. Besides, the only 'obligatory' lich is from Edwin's quest, who has been specifically nerfed to be doable earlier.

 

Allowing a save... In Yaga-Shura Battle Royale I've found a most excellent use for Holy Word - to kill those crowds of footmen, when they began to swarm. Probably the only place ever where a high-level priest can indeed show himself and smite hordes of infidels into the ground with one single word. Feels very RP, and I for one would hate to lose this little feature.

 

Nothing bad about reducing the duration, imo the spell's main advantage is the casting speed of 1 and no save and/or MR check.

 

Going against the Liches i didn't find so bad. My Cleric just instantly cast remove paralysis on the party. I guess he wasn't affected due to either Chaotic Commands or Free Action? (not sure which protects against paralyze effects...)

 

Also good for taking out the Drow city in SCSII! its about the only area effect spell which can bypass their magic resistance and no-saving throw = instant death = joy I'm glad to hear its capped at killing 10th level creatures, any more would be crazy.

 

I think it should allow a save, the values DrAzTiK suggested look pretty reasonable, maybe even a little tougher on the death save? even a save at -2 or -4 is better than no save.