Revised Grandmastery

[yarpen]

I think Salk is right, and I'm waiting for your kit revisions - especially Wizard Slayer, Shapeshifter and Beastmaster

[Demivrgvs]

I like your revised table but personally I think that the GrandMastery should give one more point of damage (just list as PnP) because it should really be the ultimate specialization.

 

The skill improvement between ** and *** in your table is equal to that between **** and *****, which I think is not right because of what I said above.

I'm fine with having a total of +5 dmg, and it would perfectly match PnP, but I don't like too much the concept of "exponential progression". Having a gradual progression rather than a "big final prize" still grants the same end result, without making one proficiency point looking "useless" compared to the others. Even if the last proficiency point doesn't grant you more than any of the previous ones, it stacks with all of them, and thus it still ends up being the "ultimate specialization" imo.

 

The one step imo that lacks something is the one from +++ to ++++, as even if improved over vanilla it still grants less than the step from + to ++. To achieve the same result you asked for I'd personally go for ++++ with already +3 to hit (thus matching the step from + to ++), and then Grandmastery with the additional +1 to damage. Finally, we are leaving out of the equation a minor thing, speed factor, and we may have it improve only at grandmastery level.

 

I think Salk is right, and I'm waiting for your kit revisions - especially Wizard Slayer, Shapeshifter and Beastmaster

I'd like to talk about a few of them, as I'd like to avoid working on something that I have to re-do because players would like it done in a completely different way. Just as quick notes though, I may say Refinements work on the Shapeshifter is really good imo, and the Beastmaster I have in mind requires me to finish my work on Familiars, as that class should really have decent animal companions imo.

[Guest Dirty Uncle Bertie]

So are you looking at changing 4* to 3 3 3/2 with the others remaining the same? If so, would going from 4* to 5* give you enough of a boost i.e. +1 damage and an extra half attack per round? I personally think an extra half attack per round is a pretty decent boost, so that coupled with the +1 damage sounds okay to me. If the gain is too small, though, how about making 5* 3 5 2?

[Salk]

To achieve the same result you asked for I'd personally go for ++++ with already +3 to hit (thus matching the step from + to ++), and then Grandmastery with the additional +1 to damage. Finally, we are leaving out of the equation a minor thing, speed factor, and we may have it improve only at grandmastery level.

 

Would be fine by me. Let the ++++ have a +3 hit bonus but lower the damage adjustment from 4 to 3.

 

In this way the +++++ can be kept as it is now in your table.

 

It'd be nice to see your suggestions about speed factor improvements, Demi!

[Icendoan]

If it does improve speed factors, the Answerer looks nicer and nicer...

 

Icen

[Demivrgvs]

Keeping Speed Factor and your suggestions into account I'd say:

 

+ : no penalties.

++ : +1 hit, +2 dmg , 0 apr, 0 speed

+++ : +2 hit, +2 dmg , +1/2 apr, 0 speed

++++ : +3 hit, +4 dmg , +1/2 apr, 0 speed

+++++ : +3 hit, +5 dmg , +1 apr, -2 speed

 

Deal?

[Salk]

Keeping Speed Factor and your suggestions into account I'd say:

 

+ : no penalties.

++ : +1 hit, +2 dmg , 0 apr, 0 speed

+++ : +2 hit, +2 dmg , +1/2 apr, 0 speed

++++ : +3 hit, +4 dmg , +1/2 apr, 0 speed

+++++ : +3 hit, +5 dmg , +1 apr, -2 speed

 

Deal?

 

It's a good proposal.

 

Personally I would like to see a modifier to the speed factor not only at the latest stage but even sooner. And I also still think that there is no need to escalate the damage adjustement to +5. What do you think of the following one?

 

+ : no penalties.

++ : +1 hit, +2 dmg , 0 apr, 0 speed

+++ : +2 hit, +2 dmg , +1/2 apr, 0 speed

++++ : +3 hit, +3 dmg , +1/2 apr, -1 speed

+++++ : +3 hit, +4 dmg , +1 apr, -2 speed

[Demivrgvs]

Salk, both solutions seem fine to me, mine was simply taking into account a player request to have the end result (+++++) match PnP.

[Dakk]

Keeping Speed Factor and your suggestions into account I'd say:

 

+ : no penalties.

++ : +1 hit, +2 dmg , 0 apr, 0 speed

+++ : +2 hit, +2 dmg , +1/2 apr, 0 speed

++++ : +3 hit, +4 dmg , +1/2 apr, 0 speed

+++++ : +3 hit, +5 dmg , +1 apr, -2 speed

 

Deal?

 

I like that one. I like it a lot. Gives ++ a bit of teeth, has nice progression and grandmastery feels "grand"! Any chance of a revised Revised Grandmastery?

 

---

Salk, both solutions seem fine to me, mine was simply taking into account a player request to have the end result (+++++) match PnP.

 

I like your revised table but personally I think that the GrandMastery should give one more point of damage (just list as PnP) because it should really be the ultimate specialization.

 

Personally I would like to see a modifier to the speed factor not only at the latest stage but even sooner. And I also still think that there is no need to escalate the damage adjustement to +5.

 

[Salk]

Dakk,

 

care to explain the reason of your out of place hilarity at my two comments?

 

They do not contradict each other, you see.

 

In my suggested table:

 

+ : no penalties.

++ : +1 hit, +2 dmg , 0 apr, 0 speed

+++ : +2 hit, +2 dmg , +1/2 apr, 0 speed

++++ : +3 hit, +3 dmg , +1/2 apr, -1 speed

+++++ : +3 hit, +4 dmg , +1 apr, -2 speed

 

Now, the +++++ gives one more point of damage? YES

 

Does it escalate to +5? NO

[Demivrgvs]

Keeping Speed Factor and your suggestions into account I'd say:

 

+ : no penalties.

++ : +1 hit, +2 dmg , 0 apr, 0 speed

+++ : +2 hit, +2 dmg , +1/2 apr, 0 speed

++++ : +3 hit, +4 dmg , +1/2 apr, 0 speed

+++++ : +3 hit, +5 dmg , +1 apr, -2 speed

 

Deal?

 

I like that one. I like it a lot. Gives ++ a bit of teeth, has nice progression and grandmastery feels "grand"! Any chance of a revised Revised Grandmastery?

Yeah, let me finish SR's latest fixes first and then I'll re-post Revised Grandmastery here.

 

Edit: Done, and done.

[Dakk]

Dakk,

 

care to explain the reason of your out of place hilarity at my two comments?

 

They do not contradict each other, you see.

 

In my suggested table:

 

+ : no penalties.

++ : +1 hit, +2 dmg , 0 apr, 0 speed

+++ : +2 hit, +2 dmg , +1/2 apr, 0 speed

++++ : +3 hit, +3 dmg , +1/2 apr, -1 speed

+++++ : +3 hit, +4 dmg , +1 apr, -2 speed

 

Now, the +++++ gives one more point of damage? YES

 

Does it escalate to +5? NO

My bad, misinterpreted what you were asking for - sorry!

[Dakk]

Yeah, let me finish SR's latest fixes first and then I'll re-post Revised Grandmastery here.

 

Edit: Done, and done.

 

Sweet jebus you're fast Thanks a bunch Demi, and the file now attached in the first post has a "hidden" -2 speed at grandmastery level?

[DrAzTiK]

If some players don't mind mini-mods like this, I can probably work on and release a few revised kits/classes on their own (as a full and patching Kit Revision mod would require a lot more time/work for me). Let me know if you are interested.

 

Personnaly, I think a litle mini mod to balance rangers could be nice, especially with this revisited grandmastery

Please, give Minsc a decent warrior class ! ( I am not very kind of the way to make him a barbarian )

[Demivrgvs]

If some players don't mind mini-mods like this, I can probably work on and release a few revised kits/classes on their own (as a full and patching Kit Revision mod would require a lot more time/work for me). Let me know if you are interested.

Personnaly, I think a litle mini mod to balance rangers could be nice, especially with this revisited grandmastery

Please, give Minsc a decent warrior class ! ( I am not very kind of the way to make him a barbarian )

I'm currently working on fighter classes (as you can see here) and because I don't want to work on difficult things for a while I'll probably avoid kits that require a lot of work (e.g. Wizard Slayer, Beastmaster and especially the Monk). Fighters shouldn't take too long excluding the WS, and either paladins or rangers are my second target.

 

Regarding Minsc, my biggest issue with him being a ranger is that he shouldn't be able to cast spells considering his wisdom and intelligence. If we add that the Realms lore tells Rashemar warriors who travel alongside their witches are barbarians/berserkers, I see very little reason to keep Minsc as a pure ranger (though that was partially covered by his unique Rage). Another solution is probably a unique kit, a crossing between a ranger and a barbarian/berserker, and I cannot promise something like that (though I quite like it ).