BG2 Level Up support (partial)

[Nugrud]

nevermind

[Nugrud]

I hope mattinm will be back someday

 

I compared level up of the fighter/mage/thief under bgmain2.exe (v2.5.26498) and gemrb (r69xx) from the same save and made a composition of screenshots:

 

 

Side note: with thiefs abilities i could go also up to 250 in exe and to only 200 in gemrb.

 

But the most interesting difference is in number of HLAs, bgmain2.exe gave only 20 HLAs to choose from, whereas GemRB counted 28 HLAs:

 

End of HLAs	 
Number of HLAs: 28

 

Full output

 

What's the point: i made a little patch to LUHLASelection.py (*merged*) tweaking a bit scrolling there, but actually this f/m/t case is the only one known to me were scrolling is of any use in gemrb, and maybe gemrb code is just wrong here, as there really is no possibility to have more than 24/25 HLAs on level up in any case? If so, maybe the scroll should be permanently removed from the script and the selection of HLAs fixed?

[Avenger]

What about new HLA's?

[Nugrud]

I don't know mods adding completly new HLAs... I also forgot to describe that silly bug in personal description window: in gemrb only one class from pc's multiclass is mentioned, 3 times, so there is thief/thief/thief instead of figther/mage/thief. The number of points to distrubute in thieves abilities is pretty different as well.

[lynx]

We know we do it wrong for multiclassed chars, those have their own entries in the table. It just needs some extra logic. The scrollbar should stay for modders.

 

I fixed the stat max.

For the values shown, maybe that is the race skill bonus you have? We assign this in chargen, so it should be fine for our chars, but it looks like IE does it dynamically (so maybe if an effect changed your race, you'd get proper boni?).

 

I'll go fix this class stuff, it is definitely a regression.

[Nugrud]

Well, the character was of the 5th figther and mage level and 6th as thief, it leveled to 18th fighter, 17th mage and 22nd thief level. According to my ToB handbook fighter gets first HLA on 20th, mage too, and thief on 25th, so i'm bit puzzled here, hm. Maybe they were offered 10 figther and 10 thief HLAs exe on earlier levels cause of TDD i have installed, but if exe did it, so gemrb should too, but it allowed also 8 mage HLAs. I think we should also consider max-xp-rising mods, so with that i imagine even exe could offer the 8 mage HLAs but it wouldn't fit

 

Ad. thieves abilities values: well, the chargen was made in exe, the save too, i just loaded it in gemrb. So yeah, maybe it's somehow dynamic, and not stored fixed in save.

[Avenger]

There could be a difference about the racial abilities?

[Nugrud]

I fixed the stat max.

 

Sorry for misinformation: i didn't take a closer look on that, just took a random ability and raised it to max, so i could go on to HLAs. Here's max values for every ability on that level-up (their chronology is mixed, i'll provide translation from Polish later):

 

 

Edit:

Kradzież Kieszonkowa: Pick Pocket

Otwieranie Zamków: Open Locks

Wykrywanie Pułapek: Find Traps

Ciche Chodzenie: Move Silently

Krycie się w Cieniu: Hide in Shadows

Wykrywanie Iluzji: Detect Illusion

Zastawianie Pułapek: Set Traps

 

http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/thieves.php -> here are the bonuses listed:

 

(b) Race bonuses for thieving abilities:

Human & Half Orc: no bonuses

Dwarf: open locks +10 / disarm traps +15

Halfling: pickpocket +5 / open locks +5 / disarm traps +5 / move silently +10 / hide in shadows +15

Gnome: open locks +5 / disarm traps +10 / move silently & hide in shadows +5

Elf: pickpocket +5 / open locks +5 / move silently +5 / hide in shadows +10

Half-elf: pickpocket +10 / hide in shadows +5

(...)

© Dexterity bonuses:

I'll skip the penalties for being clumsy-handed and start at DEX-16 with the first bonus.

Thieves receive bonuses for high dexterity in some of the thieving abilities.

dex-15: no bonus

dex-16: open locks +5

dex-17: pickpocket +5 / open locks +10/ move silently & hide in shadows +5

dex-18: pickpocket +10 / open locks +15 / set, find and disarm traps +5 / move silently & hide in shadows +10

dex-19: pickpocket +15 / open locks +20 / set, find and disarm traps +10 / move silently & hide in shadows +15

dex-20: pickpocket +20 / open locks +25 / set, find and disarm traps +15 / move silently & hide in shadows +18

dex-21: pickpocket +25 / open locks +30 / set, find and disarm traps +20 / move silently & hide in shadows +20

dex-22: pickpocket +30 / open locks +35 / set, find and disarm traps +25 / move silently & hide in shadows +23

dex-23: pickpocket +35 / open locks +40 / set, find and disarm traps +30 / move silently & hide in shadows +25

dex-24: pickpocket +40 / open locks +45 / set, find and disarm traps +35 / move silently & hide in shadows +30

dex-25: pickpocket +45 / open locks +50 / set, find and disarm traps +40 / move silently & hide in shadows +35

[Note: The high-dex modifiers on thieving abilities were extracted from the game database with the Infinity Engine Explorer - I was surprised the stealth-abilities didn't progress symmetrically like the other thieving abilities]

(e) Armor penalties on thieving abilities:

The armor a thief usually wears hinders him in using his thieving abilities to the maximum, so there are penalties for a thief wearing armor at work:

No armor: pick pockets +5 / move silently +10 / hide in shadows +5

Elven chain: pick pockets -20 / open locks -5 / disarm traps -5 / move silently hide in shadows -10

Leather armor: pick pockets -30 / open locks -10 / disarm traps -10 / move silently & hide in shadows -20

Bards suffer a -25 penalty on pickpocket when wearing regular chain mail.

 

There could be a difference about the racial abilities?

 

So according to my SoA handbook there are 3 forms of thiefs abilities bonus based on character's race, dexterity and armour. My PC was and half-elf, with 18 dexterity and wearing no armour.

 

Cause of race he should have +10% to pickpocketing, and +5% to hiding in shadow. Cause of dexterity there is boni to all abilities ranging from +5% to 15%. And wearing no armour gives additional bonuses... so i guess they are all dynamicaly added to stats.

[Nugrud]

ok, so i took a bit closer look on thief abilities distribution diffrence between exe and gemrb in chargen and level-up.

 

First I launched exe and chargen-ed pure thief classed elf with 19 dex and started new SoA game, cheated xp to 2650000 to level up to 22nd level (i also wanted to see if it will be given HLAs on that level in comparison to f/m/t), made an "exe save" and leveled up. Than i launched gemrb r6965 and went through the same process, but named the save "gemrb save". Next I loaded "exe save" in gemrb, and "gemrb save" in bg2main.exe. Here's the screenshots mozaic:

 

 

Some notes:

 

*no HLAs in any case. f/m/t indeed has earlier acces to thieves and fighters abilities in original engine, what about mage abilities? On which level could f/m/t have access to them in exe?

 

*I can't really figure out where the starting points in exe come from:

Pick Pocket: 35 = 5 (race) + 15 (dex) + 5 (no armour?) + 10 (?)

Open Locks: 25 = 5 (race) + 20 (?)

Find Traps: 15 = 20 (?? -> dex) - 5 ()

Move Silently: 35 = 5 (race) + 15 (dex) + 10 (no armour?) + 5 (?)

Hide in Shadows: 30 = 10 (race) + 15 (dex) + 5 (no armour?)

Detect Illusion: 0 = 0

Set Traps: 10 = 10 (?)

GemRB seems to give bonuses from race and dex properly here.

 

*The current XP from gemrb save was not loaded properly in exe, i had to recheat to 2650000 in exe's cluaconsole. When I load "gemrb save" in gemrb the current xp is back. Funny, when i loaded "gemrb save" in exe, the reputation got immediately decreased by one...

[AnonymousHero]

I don't know if it's hardcoded, but using the G3 tweak pack triple-class HLA's F/M/T's get access to their spell-like HLAs when they can cast them, i.e. at level 18. The Extra Spell HLAs become available at 3M EXP.

[Nugrud]

Hm, i don't have g3 tweak pack installed, but if it is hardcoded i was only 1 mage level from access to mage HLAs? What if i installed level-50 rules and set current xp to its max value for that f/m/t? The xp-cap would have to be raised to at least 9000000, right?

 

Other note from my comparison:

 

* the max values of thieves abilities for this pc (elf, 19dex, no armour) where different from the f/m/t (half-elf, 18dex, no armour):

ability: f/m/t || f || diff (notes)

Pick Pocket || 285 || 285 || 0 (half elf has 5 more point from race bonus, but five less from dex bonus)

Open Locks || 275 || 275 || 0 (elf should have in total 10 more boni from race and dex, so puzzled)

Find Traps || 260 || 265 || + 5 (there should be 5 more boni points from race and dex bonuses when summed up...)

Move Silently || 275 || 285 || + 10 (seems right: +5 more from race and +5 more from dex bonuses)

Hide in Shadows || 270 || 280 || + 10 (the same as about)

Detect Illusion || 250 || 250 || 0

Set Traps || 255 || 260 || + 5 (dex bonus)

[AnonymousHero]

Hm, i don't have g3 tweak pack installed, but if it is hardcoded i was only 1 mage level from access to mage HLAs? What if i installed level-50 rules and set current xp to its max value for that f/m/t? The xp-cap would have to be raised to at least 9000000, right?

Even without the XP-cap the F/M/T never gets the spell-like Mage HLAs in the vanilla game. I can't remember if they do get the "Extra Level N Spell" HLAs. But, yes, you'd need at least 9M EXP.

[lynx]

When somebody gets HLAs is dictated by a table (lunumab), so this is not hard to change.

 

The stat max is fine now, the only difference is how we handle the race bonus.

 

Your calculations are fine too. Armor doesn't not affect the skills at that point and you copied some bad values, I guess they are from the manual. skillrac has the actually used ones.

 

We also give a different amount of points to distribute. Please create a normal thief in the original and gemrb and tell me the level and the amount of points you were given to distribute.

[Nugrud]

Even without the XP-cap the F/M/T never gets the spell-like Mage HLAs in the vanilla game. I can't remember if they do get the "Extra Level N Spell" HLAs. But, yes, you'd need at least 9M EXP.

 

You're right, by lynx pointing i found lunamab.2da and lowered first hla level for each class much, but still i didn't get mage hlas with f/m/t, neither i get hla-s from all 3 classes with f/m/c...

 

The stat max is fine now, the only difference is how we handle the race bonus.

 

I think the base max stat is 250, but the exe dynamically raises it cause of all bonuses the character has.

 

We also give a different amount of points to distribute. Please create a normal thief in the original and gemrb and tell me the level and the amount of points you were given to distribute.

 

Yes, i did it on clean bg2 install, i started new SoA game, and chargen-ed pure classed thief of every race with 18 dex (but dwarf, where i gave 17 dexterity) in exe and gemrb r7028 and compared starting points and points to distribute:

 

(btw, i could give 18 dex for dwarf in gemrb, when i shouldn't be able to, and i also had to assign all points i got to distribute, whereas in exe i didn't have to)

 

P.S. I see the regression of multiclass description in personal info window is fixed

[lynx]

fixed the skill point gain. (yay, you can now cg theives a second faster)