Early v3 beta feedback

[deducter]

Some early feedback on the mod, regarding the store revisions component done by Ardanis:

 

I only played through a tiny bit of SoA so far, but I am blown away by the attention to detail in the store revisions component. This mod, when out of beta, will probably do for items what SCSII does for combat. Where to begin?

 

1. Specific stores selling and buying specific items, jewelers, fletchers actually being fletchers, the dwarf armorer selling the Dwarven Thrower and various heavy armors/shields, the various black market merchants have a hodgepodge of goods including random lists of spell scrolls, all very appropriate thus far.

2. The rates differ between merchants, just on a cursory examination I've noticed the healing potions at the Adventurer's Mart are quite expensive, whereas potions at temples are cheaper. The Adventurer's Mart of course has the clear advantage of being a one-stop shop and having a massive inventory of useful items and scrolls, but the player surely will be rewarded for exploring.

3. Also, much worse rates to sell to thieves, but they seem to buy everything. Different merchants buy different goods, the legit ones obviously pay much better.

4. Centralized scroll cases and gem bags, I'm sure there are others scattered throughout Amn, but nice to put 2-3 of each in Waukeen's Promenade.

5. The distribution of scrolls throughout the game is also much better, everything from Kalah to the first Bandit encounters [Eldarin] to Rayic Gethras to the cleric scrolls in temples. They've all been changed, it seems so far that there are fewer free scrolls, and so far it's been very reasonable. If I'm not mistaken there's also a theme, like I vaguely recall Kalah had mostly illusion scrolls. This is amazing attention to detail if kept up for the rest of the game.

6. Flail of Submission on the slavers in the Slums, very nice touch. I was quite surprised to find such an appropriate item there. Glasses of Identify (whatever they are called) in the temple of Oghma.

7. Scrolls of Bless, Chaotic Commands, Break Enchantment, Remove Paralysis (yes!), and so many useful priest scrolls. Very nice detail that priest scrolls are much cheaper than mage scrolls, because only arcane magic is illegal. Bam for priest scroll of True Seeing is wrong.

8. Potion of Evasion seemed supremely OP, but only allowing thieves and monk to use it... very clever and I feel makes the potion balanced. Potion of Magic Shielding still the most expensive (that I've seen so far), and for good reason. Potion of Magic Dispelling, useful if careful. Potion of Toughness increase hp by 20%, very nice touch, whether it's to help that mage get from 50 to 60 hp so PW:Kill doesn't work or to help that warrior with 100 hp to get boosted to 120 hp, it seems useful on all characters. Hopefully with the main release of this mod and collaboration with SCSII, enemy mages and priests will use Potion of Vocalize, for instance.

 

I'm not sure at this point how balanced the mod may or may not be, but my initial impression is that prices should be fine, and I'll keep an eye out on how many goods I can buy from the stores.

 

Here is what I feel an important suggestion:

1. Many wands in the Magic Emporium probably have 50 charges? Except for the clever new Wand of Polymorph, and I think there was something else new there too, the wands are too expensive. I think few people will pay 27000 for a new wand of fireball or frost, especially if money becomes tighter. Might I suggest lowering the charges of the wands in the store to a more reasonable number, say somewhere between 5 and 10?

2. There's a merchant in the docks that sells an Elvish chain and a flaming longsword +3. Seems silly. Also, the Copper Coronet sells the lesser version of it, the +1 longsword, but it seems to have the same stats. I thought in general +3 weapons wouldn't be sold until the Underdark. There's no reason to have two merchants selling two different but similar versions of the item, I'd probably only make the +1 version for sale and move the other item somewhere else.

3. Consider adding or moving potion cases to either Mira or the Adventurer's Mart potion maker? I haven't found the potion cases yet, but that would make sense and just be more convenient overall. I know they used to be Roger the Fence and Mrs. Cragmoon, but considering you centralized a decent number of the scroll and gem cases why not add/move a potion case to the Promenade?

 

My other suggestions are more speculative

4. Obviously I haven't explored very much, but I vaguely recalled the talk of implementing specialist mage merchants, like a necromancer or an enchanter or an illusionist selling scrolls of their own school, I'd imagine at a significant discount from the magic emporium. However, this does seem time consuming to code, and I wouldn't have suggested it if I wasn't already so impressed with the attention to detail shown thus far. If this were to be implemented, the scrolls sold at the Magic Emporium would have to be reduced to compensate. You could also make the specialist mages sell scrolls at a price similar to that of the Magic Emporium, basically this will force the player to explore around to get some special spell scrolls. I'm thinking the basics like Magic Missile, Haste, Stoneskin, even Breach, could be gotten at the Magic Emporium. But to get your hands on Pierce Shield, or Improved Haste, or Protection from Magical Weapon, or Spell Turning, or Horrid Wilting, might require more powerful, specialized magic sellers. This does seem to be a difficult component to code and to balance, but would be very nice if it could be pulled off.

5. Consider only allowing the player to buy from the Magic Emporium after obtaining the Magic License from the Cowled Wizards? This makes a lot of sense logically, and I'd imagine it should not be too difficult to code. 5000g is not hard to get even barely into Act 2. The player of course should be able to buy scrolls from the illegal sources without having a license.

6. Would you consider adding a Bag of Holding, to Ribald, to be sold at a moderate price, like 5k. For convenience, because I'm sure most of us playing the game has gone through it so many times that the inventory management before getting the Bag of Holding is just tedious. I'm often tempted to CLUAConsole one for myself at the start of Act 2.

7. Just out of curiosity, do you have a scroll of Spell Trigger for sale or as a drop somewhere in the game? I know there actually wasn't any for sale in Vanilla SoA, and only in ToB. To get Spell Trigger you'd either have to cheat or to get lucky with one of the random drops. As long as the answer is yes, I'd be happy, no other details needed.

 

I have SCSII and spell revisions, and I use a balanced party of NPCs. I generally use a good amount of consumables, since I am fond of finishing dungeons without resting. I'll probably report on how things are going later.

[Shaitan]

1. Specific stores selling and buying specific items, jewelers, fletchers actually being fletchers, the dwarf armorer selling the Dwarven Thrower and various heavy armors/shields, the various black market merchants have a hodgepodge of goods including random lists of spell scrolls, all very appropriate thus far.

2. The rates differ between merchants, just on a cursory examination I've noticed the healing potions at the Adventurer's Mart are quite expensive, whereas potions at temples are cheaper. The Adventurer's Mart of course has the clear advantage of being a one-stop shop and having a massive inventory of useful items and scrolls, but the player surely will be rewarded for exploring.

3. Also, much worse rates to sell to thieves, but they seem to buy everything. Different merchants buy different goods, the legit ones obviously pay much better.

4. Centralized scroll cases and gem bags, I'm sure there are others scattered throughout Amn, but nice to put 2-3 of each in Waukeen's Promenade.

5. The distribution of scrolls throughout the game is also much better, everything from Kalah to the first Bandit encounters [Eldarin] to Rayic Gethras to the cleric scrolls in temples. They've all been changed, it seems so far that there are fewer free scrolls, and so far it's been very reasonable. If I'm not mistaken there's also a theme, like I vaguely recall Kalah had mostly illusion scrolls. This is amazing attention to detail if kept up for the rest of the game.

6. Flail of Submission on the slavers in the Slums, very nice touch. I was quite surprised to find such an appropriate item there. Glasses of Identify (whatever they are called) in the temple of Oghma.

7. Scrolls of Bless, Chaotic Commands, Break Enchantment, Remove Paralysis (yes!), and so many useful priest scrolls. Very nice detail that priest scrolls are much cheaper than mage scrolls, because only arcane magic is illegal. Bam for priest scroll of True Seeing is wrong.

8. Potion of Evasion seemed supremely OP, but only allowing thieves and monk to use it... very clever and I feel makes the potion balanced. Potion of Magic Shielding still the most expensive (that I've seen so far), and for good reason. Potion of Magic Dispelling, useful if careful. Potion of Toughness increase hp by 20%, very nice touch, whether it's to help that mage get from 50 to 60 hp so PW:Kill doesn't work or to help that warrior with 100 hp to get boosted to 120 hp, it seems useful on all characters. Hopefully with the main release of this mod and collaboration with SCSII, enemy mages and priests will use Potion of Vocalize, for instance.

 

I agree fully. I'm only 1/4 through capter 2, and it's really impressing.

 

2. There's a merchant in the docks that sells an Elvish chain and a flaming longsword +3. Seems silly. Also, the Copper Coronet sells the lesser version of it, the +1 longsword, but it seems to have the same stats. I thought in general +3 weapons wouldn't be sold until the Underdark. There's no reason to have two merchants selling two different but similar versions of the item, I'd probably only make the +1 version for sale and move the other item somewhere else.

It's Sio'chaire who sells Flame Tongue +3 and en Elvish chain mail. I wouldn't wonder much if Flame Tongue was moved to either Brynnlaw or was raised in price. (or sold in the Underdark)

[Demivrgvs]

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions, I was writing a long reply, but Firefox crushed to desktop, destroying my good will too. The short version is...

 

I am blown away by the attention to detail in the store revisions component.

I agree fully. I'm only 1/4 through capter 2, and it's really impressing.

Details do make the difference imo, and both I and Ardanis love them. I'm glad all those endless nights spent discussing them seem to pay off!

 

1. Many wands in the Magic Emporium probably have 50 charges? Except for the clever new Wand of Polymorph, and I think there was something else new there too, the wands are too expensive. I think few people will pay 27000 for a new wand of fireball or frost, especially if money becomes tighter. Might I suggest lowering the charges of the wands in the store to a more reasonable number, say somewhere between 5 and 10?

It's an oversight. IRs wands have 10 charges (WoPolymorph erroneously has 100 charges, will fix asap).

 

2. There's a merchant in the docks that sells an Elvish chain and a flaming longsword +3. Seems silly. Also, the Copper Coronet sells the lesser version of it, the +1 longsword, but it seems to have the same stats. I thought in general +3 weapons wouldn't be sold until the Underdark. There's no reason to have two merchants selling two different but similar versions of the item, I'd probably only make the +1 version for sale and move the other item somewhere else.

The +1 version is a scimitar within IR, not a long sword. That being said, Flame Tongue is one of the few items I'm not satisfied with. I'll think about it.

 

3. Consider adding or moving potion cases to either Mira or the Adventurer's Mart potion maker? I haven't found the potion cases yet, but that would make sense and just be more convenient overall. I know they used to be Roger the Fence and Mrs. Cragmoon, but considering you centralized a decent number of the scroll and gem cases why not add/move a potion case to the Promenade?

Fine with me.

 

4. Obviously I haven't explored very much, but I vaguely recalled the talk of implementing specialist mage merchants, like a necromancer or an enchanter or an illusionist selling scrolls of their own school, I'd imagine at a significant discount from the magic emporium.

It has some potential, we'll see.

 

5. Consider only allowing the player to buy from the Magic Emporium after obtaining the Magic License from the Cowled Wizards? This makes a lot of sense logically, and I'd imagine it should not be too difficult to code. 5000g is not hard to get even barely into Act 2. The player of course should be able to buy scrolls from the illegal sources without having a license.

I like this idea.

 

P.S We already do this sort of things. For example the Order's store will sell you items only if the the party has a really high reputation.

 

6. Would you consider adding a Bag of Holding, to Ribald, to be sold at a moderate price, like 5k. For convenience, because I'm sure most of us playing the game has gone through it so many times that the inventory management before getting the Bag of Holding is just tedious. I'm often tempted to CLUAConsole one for myself at the start of Act 2.

I'm not a huge fan of this convenient item, but fine with me.

 

7. Just out of curiosity, do you have a scroll of Spell Trigger for sale or as a drop somewhere in the game? I know there actually wasn't any for sale in Vanilla SoA, and only in ToB. To get Spell Trigger you'd either have to cheat or to get lucky with one of the random drops. As long as the answer is yes, I'd be happy, no other details needed.

Ribald's Special Store and Lazarus Libraries should have it.

 

I have SCSII and spell revisions, and I use a balanced party of NPCs. I generally use a good amount of consumables, since I am fond of finishing dungeons without resting. I'll probably report on how things are going later.

[Ardanis]

1. Many wands in the Magic Emporium probably have 50 charges? Except for the clever new Wand of Polymorph, and I think there was something else new there too, the wands are too expensive. I think few people will pay 27000 for a new wand of fireball or frost, especially if money becomes tighter. Might I suggest lowering the charges of the wands in the store to a more reasonable number, say somewhere between 5 and 10?

There should be 10 charges if IR's items are installed, and 50 otherwise.

 

2. There's a merchant in the docks that sells an Elvish chain and a flaming longsword +3. Seems silly. Also, the Copper Coronet sells the lesser version of it, the +1 longsword, but it seems to have the same stats. I thought in general +3 weapons wouldn't be sold until the Underdark. There's no reason to have two merchants selling two different but similar versions of the item, I'd probably only make the +1 version for sale and move the other item somewhere else.

I've opted for elven (longsword and bow) and fire themes for her, so Flametongue is a perfect match. At the same time, Demi insisted there're all weapon proficiencies available early on, hence the the flaming scimitar in CC.

It's Sio'chaire who sells Flame Tongue +3 and en Elvish chain mail. I wouldn't wonder much if Flame Tongue was moved to either Brynnlaw or was raised in price. (or sold in the Underdark)

I knew I forgot to peck Miloch about Unique Containers/IR compatibility.

 

3. Consider adding or moving potion cases to either Mira or the Adventurer's Mart potion maker? I haven't found the potion cases yet, but that would make sense and just be more convenient overall. I know they used to be Roger the Fence and Mrs. Cragmoon, but considering you centralized a decent number of the scroll and gem cases why not add/move a potion case to the Promenade?

6. Would you consider adding a Bag of Holding, to Ribald, to be sold at a moderate price, like 5k. For convenience, because I'm sure most of us playing the game has gone through it so many times that the inventory management before getting the Bag of Holding is just tedious. I'm often tempted to CLUAConsole one for myself at the start of Act 2.

Agreed. I was half-considering to add them anyway.

 

4. Obviously I haven't explored very much, but I vaguely recalled the talk of implementing specialist mage merchants, like a necromancer or an enchanter or an illusionist selling scrolls of their own school, I'd imagine at a significant discount from the magic emporium. However, this does seem time consuming to code, and I wouldn't have suggested it if I wasn't already so impressed with the attention to detail shown thus far. If this were to be implemented, the scrolls sold at the Magic Emporium would have to be reduced to compensate. You could also make the specialist mages sell scrolls at a price similar to that of the Magic Emporium, basically this will force the player to explore around to get some special spell scrolls. I'm thinking the basics like Magic Missile, Haste, Stoneskin, even Breach, could be gotten at the Magic Emporium. But to get your hands on Pierce Shield, or Improved Haste, or Protection from Magical Weapon, or Spell Turning, or Horrid Wilting, might require more powerful, specialized magic sellers. This does seem to be a difficult component to code and to balance, but would be very nice if it could be pulled off.

There's an enchanter in Imnesville, and svirfneblin in UD offers illusion and stone-descripted spells.

Other than that, there's a dwarf in Trademeet. Guess he can be made into something more specialized.

 

I'm not sure though if restricting exceptional scrolls to specialized traders is good. There're quite a few of them in total in game, so the quest for discovering such a vendor is kinda doomed. Besides, I thought it was both reasonable - due to being a part of "supermarket net" - and convenient for one place to have everything.

 

5. Consider only allowing the player to buy from the Magic Emporium after obtaining the Magic License from the Cowled Wizards? This makes a lot of sense logically, and I'd imagine it should not be too difficult to code. 5000g is not hard to get even barely into Act 2. The player of course should be able to buy scrolls from the illegal sources without having a license.

Interesting. I don't buy the license on principle though - to have an occasional fight with CWs and to have to hide from them when I'm not into mage battle...

But in the end, I think it's worth it.

 

7. Just out of curiosity, do you have a scroll of Spell Trigger for sale or as a drop somewhere in the game? I know there actually wasn't any for sale in Vanilla SoA, and only in ToB. To get Spell Trigger you'd either have to cheat or to get lucky with one of the random drops. As long as the answer is yes, I'd be happy, no other details needed.

Should there be one in AM? I think it's high level scrolls are mainly for direct use, not memorizing, and there're may be battles easier to win with a readied Spell Trigger.

[Lawlight]

QUOTE

7. Just out of curiosity, do you have a scroll of Spell Trigger for sale or as a drop somewhere in the game? I know there actually wasn't any for sale in Vanilla SoA, and only in ToB. To get Spell Trigger you'd either have to cheat or to get lucky with one of the random drops. As long as the answer is yes, I'd be happy, no other details needed.

Should there be one in AM? I think it's high level scrolls are mainly for direct use, not memorizing, and there're may be battles easier to win with a readied Spell Trigger.

 

In my eyes it's annoying to be dependent on luck to get the scroll you want. Especially when Beshaba hates you...

[Shaitan]

I like the new Rift Hammer very much.

[Miloch]

It's Sio'chaire who sells Flame Tongue +3 and en Elvish chain mail. I wouldn't wonder much if Flame Tongue was moved to either Brynnlaw or was raised in price. (or sold in the Underdark)

I knew I forgot to peck Miloch about Unique Containers/IR compatibility.

Well, we don't give her a +3 sword or elven mail or anything. We just rearrange some containers (maybe - I'm not even sure about that in this particular vendor's case) and give her store a name since it didn't have one (which becomes rather annoying when trying to figure out who is who or who sells what).

 

Anyway, you asked about compatibility with Aurora like half a year ago and I replied then asking what more you needed and you never replied back . But I doubt there is much incompatibility. I just wonder if it's wisest to put these changes into Item Revisions. It sounds more like a separate mod ("Store Revisions") to me (in which case it could likely slurp up some of the store-related Aurora components, which were yours originally).

[Jaxsbudgie]

Hello!

 

Not sure if this is the right place to be posting this ...

 

But I'm thoroughly enjoying version 3! Item Revisions and Spell Revisions are what instil the hope within this game for me, so first and foremost thank you.

Thoroughly enjoying the redistributed items to all the merchants, although I can't seem to find many that sell normal non-magical arrows, bolts and bullets. But that's fine, makes the game a little bit more challenging (probably worth noting I have the component in SCS2 installed that removes nearly all ammunition from containers when adventuring ... De'Arnise Keep was ... challenging to say the least)

I've also noticed that nearly all the merchants sell composite shortbows, don't know if this is through your mod or not, but it sort of breaks the role playing elements when talking to merchants that sell nothing but potions or gems and yet for some reason sell shortbows ... maybe shortbows are in season?

I don't know if this is from your mod or another but I used Level1NPCs to turn Valygar into a Monk and his family armour was transformed from leather into robes, which is great!

I also changed Nalia into a Fighter>Mage and only just noticed the changes to her ring. Although the +2 luck bonus is great, it doesn't affect (effect? I never know which one it is) her thieving skills since she doesn't have any! I also read on here somewhere that the ring was going to be removable and only useable by her alone? Is this still going to be implemented? Just kitted her out in the Battlemage Robes - brilliant! And gave Viconia (Necromancer/Cleric) the robes that give an additional 20% magic resistance (I forget what they're called) which is also brilliant!

I don't know if Nalia's signet ring really has longevity though ... I know that a lot of players find her permanent signet ring annoying late SoA and ToB. But to be honest I don't mind, I prefer role playing than hardcore gaming.

Is it viable/potentially believable if Viconia had some sort of DeVir signet?

 

This version is really making the gameplay different which is essential methinks, especially since I play this game a little too much!

 

Thanks again!

[Ardanis]

Thoroughly enjoying the redistributed items to all the merchants, although I can't seem to find many that sell normal non-magical arrows, bolts and bullets.

Good point. I usually double the maximum amount in stack for ammo and then fill party's slots in the first with shop, which is usually more than enough until party gets magical ammo. Thus I didn't see normal ammo as something one would care to buy.

 

I've also noticed that nearly all the merchants sell composite shortbows, don't know if this is through your mod or not, but it sort of breaks the role playing elements when talking to merchants that sell nothing but potions or gems and yet for some reason sell shortbows ... maybe shortbows are in season?

The store component should be installed after Rogue Rebalancing.

 

I don't know if this is from your mod or another but I used Level1NPCs to turn Valygar into a Monk and his family armour was transformed from leather into robes, which is great!

L1NPC adjusts their equipment to be usable by new class. Although I'm unsure if items keep their abilities intact... needs to check.

[Pacek]

affect/effect

Affect is the verb, effect the noun. Most of the time.

[Guest i30817]

Found a bug with the crossbow of speed +1 (edit 3):

http://www.shsforums.net/topic/42220-fixes...post__p__525133

 

I'm not sure if i installed the correct files now. I took the beta from the beta thread and unzipped on top of them the hotfixes from the hotfix thread and installed that.

 

I was trying to use it with a unlimited bolts quiver so maybe it's that.

[Guest i30817]

 

Disregard that, i was confusing a "quiver of plenty" with a "case of plenty" which i had too.

[Guest i30817]

BTW, is the ring of folly working? I cast every spell in my fighter mage cleric spellbook and they came out alright. I can't tell about the casting speed either.

 

Annnnnd. What's up with the blade of the deceiver. Dammmmm.

 

Found in the shipwreck north of candlekeep

"deceiver's blade"

1D8+1

THAC0 +5

Dex +2

AC +3

1 extra attack per round.

 

Usable by bards i guess.

 

I'm thinking the description is a lie too? Because i haven't a bard to try it out.

[Guest i30817]

It works.

 

Jesus, what a obscenity.

[Guest i30817]

Ahah, it's from DSoTSC

(even though i specifically installed the component to remove every mod added item from BP-Balancer).