Saving throw weirdness in BG1 - Khalid vs Kagain

[chuft]

I am not sure if this is mod related or not, but I am using the Tweaks Pack for BG1, and Sasha's Fixpack, so maybe they are involved somehow.

 

I started a new game yesterday and upon picking up some characters for my party, took a look at their saving throws. I noticed something strange. These two characters are both level 2 fighters. One is a half elf, the other a dwarf with a 20 constitution, which should give the dwarf a massive saving throw advantage due to his racial ability. However, it is the half elf who, for some reason, has very good savings throws despite his low level. Can anybody confirm whether these stats appear the same in an unmodded game? What could explain them? Kagain should have a +5 bonus vs spells yet his saving throw is a 17? How can that be? And why does Khalid have a 12? It seems they are reversed. Yet they both have the same for Poison. Shouldn't Kagain have a +5 bonus there as well?

 

[chuft]

Another strange thing I have noticed is Amulets of Protection +1 sell for 1 gp in stores. This happened my entire last game too. I assume either the fixpack or the tweaks pack is responsible for it somehow, either that or some kind of bad install. I did install the tweak that lets you use Protection items like in pen and paper, i.e. you can click the Item button to convert them from "Add AC bonus" to "Just add saving throw bonus" or back again.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Another strange thing I have noticed is Amulets of Protection +1 sell for 1 gp in stores. This happened my entire last game too. I assume either the fixpack or the tweaks pack is responsible for it somehow, either that or some kind of bad install. I did install the tweak that lets you use Protection items like in pen and paper, i.e. you can click the Item button to convert them from "Add AC bonus" to "Just add saving throw bonus" or back again.

Did you "identify" the amulet ?

Kagain sure should have better saves: Death/poison 9, Wands 11, Polymorph 15, Breath 17 and Spells 12.

[Pacek]

I think these saving throws are vanilla bugs. They are addressed in the dudleyfixes: http://forgottenwars.com/dudleyfix/bg1_npcs.htm

seems to be what you are experiencing.

[chuft]

Interesting. For some reason I thought Baldurdash and the Dudleyfixes were out of date, incompatible etc with the G3 Tweaks Pack, but if not, maybe I should be using them instead of Sasha's fixpack, which is version 0.00013 or something (a clue, I guess, that it is a beta and not meant for prime time).

 

When Kaigan leveled up to level 3, all his savings throws changed to what they should be. So this problem corrects itself apparently, if he can survive to a level-up. Not sure about Khalid's, since I dumped him to help build my evil party. In fact I usually dump him in good parties too, so I am not too worried about his saving throws; it just seemed like a clear bug.

 

I am playing with the Tweak that identifies all items automatically, so no, I didn't identify the Amulet of Protection +1. I have seen two of them for sale for 1 gp each in stores. Other magic items are identified also but do not have this pricing anomaly. Are these amulets normally sold in an unidentified state and thus have an unusual price compared to other items in stores?

[plainab]

Most errors are resolved by levelling up the NPC at which point the game engine overrides the static creature definition files and applies the correct rules. The following changes ensure that when you meet them for the first time their stats are correct.

this i think is why i did not do the changes on this page.

baldurdash & dudley are not 'out of date' they can still be used as any player sees fit. the fixpack that you are using is/was technically a public release for feedback on bugs related to the patches and not a finalized version. it sorta became final cause i disappeared for a long long time....

 

as far as amulet of protection +1 that needs some looking cause i don't remember dealing with that in any way.....

[plainab]

Another strange thing I have noticed is Amulets of Protection +1 sell for 1 gp in stores. This happened my entire last game too. I assume either the fixpack or the tweaks pack is responsible for it somehow, either that or some kind of bad install. I did install the tweak that lets you use Protection items like in pen and paper, i.e. you can click the Item button to convert them from "Add AC bonus" to "Just add saving throw bonus" or back again.

make sure you don't have any other mods installed that affect this. my current install just has the fixpack (same version you have) and the amulet of protection +1 has a price of 3000. this is according to NI. I'm trying to set things up on my laptop and as such don't have any saves at a location to confirm anything in game.

 

did you ever have an old style overwriting mod? it is possible that something got left behind if you removed it.

[Miloch]

The Dudleyfix component in Level 1 NPCs fixes this, though just for Tutu and BGT, not BG1 (in theory, it probably would work for BG1).

[chuft]

I have no other mods installed. I installed Widescreen mod at one point, but it was incredibly jerky, like it was in Planescape, so I uninstalled it. I wasn't going to go through that again. I think I reinstalled BG1 after that but I can't remember. I believe all I have installed is Fixpack and Tweaks in that order.

 

I just noticed another oddity, Safana's special ability button is there, but when I click it, there are no abilities to pick from.

 

The Dudleyfix component in Level 1 NPCs fixes this, though just for Tutu and BGT, not BG1 (in theory, it probably would work for BG1).

 

I am kind of clueless about this sort of thing. I've never used Tutu. I thought it was a WeiDu thing and Dudleyfixes were pre-WeiDu?

 

Sorry for the late replies, for some reason I am no longer getting email notifications even though it says "You are currently receiving email notification of replies." I was at first, from the BG1 Tweaks thread.

[Miloch]

If you are using plain BG1, you can install the Dudleyfixes before any WeiDU mods (which you can also install).

[plainab]

If you are using plain BG1, you can install the Dudleyfixes before any WeiDU mods (which you can also install).

tho if you choose to use dudley... I'd suggest to be safe and not to use the fixpack I just got back to working on. i have no clue as to what would happen if you even tried, most likely a really botched game.

[chuft]

One thing I seldom see mentioned for some reason is compatibility of saved games with various Tweaks, Fixes, etc. The G3 Tweaks pack for example doesn't say whether you can use saved games after installing the Tweaks, other than one mention of having to start a new game for a particular component, but I didn't want to infer too much from that.

 

Is it generally a bad idea to try to use a saved game with a newly installed tweakpack or fixpack or baldurdash or dudleyfix?

 

I am assuming it is, but, maybe it isn't. Kind of curious if I could backup my save games, do a clean install of BG1 and TotSC, install Baldurdash, and Dudleyfixes and G3 Tweaks pack and then put my saves back in, or whether that would just make mud out of the saved game.

[plainab]

whenever you change mod order or the mods used you ALWAYS run the risk of having unforeseen troubles when using a saved game. the only time you can use a save game is when you are adding a new mod to the end of your mod list AND that mod has stated that it is safe to do so.

[chuft]

Thanks.

 

What about changing a Tweaks setting if you had Tweaks installed already at the start of the game? Can you change something like "reputation effect on stores" and continue to use your saved game?

[plainab]

Thanks.

 

What about changing a Tweaks setting if you had Tweaks installed already at the start of the game? Can you change something like "reputation effect on stores" and continue to use your saved game?

that is tricky. many things once met in the game get saved in that status in the save game. Especially stores & npc data. So while you could uninstall each mod & component up to that point and then reinstall everything else after making the change, you could still run into problems.

 

in my book it is always better to start fresh than try to continue where you are at. only time i ever installed mid game and used a mod was when i was testing party ai scripts, as those can get assigned manually in the game...