A Great but Pessimistic Mind

[Domi]

A question for everyone with better classical education than I... Could you recommend works or a school of philosophy that exercises beliefs close to that of Xan - a refined pessimism thinggy (ie in vein with "We are all doomed", "Our quest is vain"). I keep thinking that his character reflects some particular philosophical archetype.

[jester]

Not that I could claim to have such an education, but I always found Schopenhauer to be a rather negative guy.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Schopenhauer

http://www.friesian.com/arthur.htm

http://www.blupete.com/Literature/Biograph...chopenhauer.htm

 

I love Xan and I always felt in the bottom of my heart that our enterprise was doomed from the beginning. I'd wager that the Elves send him to investigate only to be rid of him for a while.

[Hendryk]

To suit Xan, you'd need a philosophy that postulated a vaguely malign multiverse; one that was not merely indifferent to mortals but actually determined to disappoint and frustrate them. Ancient schools of philosophy tended to teach some such thing about our temporal world but all, AFAIK, posited some species of Eternity where things were Good, Beautiful, Perfect and so on.

 

The firm Materialists, some of them, denied Eternity but would also scoff at Xan's pessimism as they deny that the universe has, or can have, any purpose or goal whatsoever. Of course, Xan could adopt this pov to suit himself, saying that the inevitable disaster inheres in the laws of chance which alone rule us all and that hope and disappointment are the bastard children of ignorance and egotism.

[seanas]

To suit Xan, you'd need a philosophy that postulated a vaguely malign multiverse; one that was not merely indifferent to mortals but actually determined to disappoint and frustrate them.

something like the Gnostics or the Cathars, then?

 

although to be honest, whenever i think of Xan, i think of Neil from the Young Ones....

[NiGHTMARE]

Xan reminds me of Private Frazer from Dad's Army, especially with the "we're all doomed!" line .

[seanas]

you can't really have a philosophy based on whingeing, can you?

 

i mean, i would have thought that one of the characteristics of a philosophy was that it had a telos of some sort, and so the logical conclusion of a philosophy of pessimism would be to top yrself, surely? and if you weren't will to end it all cos it's all futile, then it *would* all be whingeing and posturing, would it?

 

having said that, some of the peasant-derived christian heresies like the cathars and the bogomils (like jester, i too have read 'the name of the rose', *and* i've done a wikipedia search ) were pretty bleak, as were some of the north european paganisms: but these are all religions, not philospohies, so that's probably not much help.

 

maybe a variation of Hobbes' 'short, nasty and brutish'? i know Hobbes used it as an excuse to justify private property, capitalism and a strong state apparatus, but you *could* view it more fatalistically?

[Hendryk]

Hobbes actually was advocating a worldly goal; a benevolent but totalitarian theocracy modeled upon, and presumably run by, the C of E. He contrasted the life of man in a state of nature, nasty, brutish and short, with the desirable order derived from his proposed state, the Leviathan. In short, he thought life in this world capable of definite and systematic improvement; although, honestly, the chief improvement he seems to have desired was that the throngs of his inferiors should be more servile towards himself than was, apparently, the case.

[Domi]

you can't really have a philosophy based on whingeing, can you?

 

Well, the way I see Xan's system of believes:

 

We are all mortal, and death is something to be afraid of. One has to exercise his abilities to the limits to keep alive. An individual is insignificant as compared to his own creations and the hostile world in general. One has to do his duty, but not deceive himself on the account of his abilities and seek what is beyond his call. Evil or overachieving people deserve to die.

[Andyr]

Sounds like a few Bad Religion songs.

 

EDIT: The Answer, Ten in 2010, Pity The Dead, Punk Rock Song and a few others in case anyone was wondering. Saying there's trouble in the world and we should focus on gettting our priorities right. Perhaps not as pessimistic as Xan, though...

[Domi]

Guys, I am looking for works of philosophy, that argue in favour of these beileves, as opposite to additional expression of the similar ideas.

[Andyr]

I'd agree with Jester's suggestion of Schopenhaur, then. Or maybe Heidegger... But I've not read much Heidegger.

[Hendryk]

For the low-down on all philosophies (and philosophers!) since Leibnitz, read a novel by Heman Hesse called 'The Glass Bead Game', (aka 'Magister Ludi').

[Domi]

First I need to make my way through The Complete Idiot's Guide to Philosophy to get up to speed... So far the only course in Philosophy I had was Philosophy in Geoscience (in 1995 or 1996) ... remeber one thing from it: there is some deep meaning in which way proteins twisted in PZ... No, almost two! The geological time scale has deep meaning, do not remeber which one, though. Heh, it was a pass or fail course, people. Not at all like 'History of Geology', the most horrifying course in our 5th year, actually. *shudders* Open book exam, you were allowed to go to the library to prepare, consult others, do anything you wanted, and still passing it if proff got you, not one of the assistants, was mission impossible.

[seanas]

can't say i know much about Schopenhauer, so i can't comment. i do know a fair bit about Heidegger though, and he doesn't fit the bill (although that might be because i hate his work so much). maybe some of the post-war existentialists? sure, they slide into macho posturing and egoism, but there's a strong streak of ennui and fatalism in their work (eg: Camus, Sartre). (i was going to link to the wikipedia entry on Existentialism, but it's so rubbish it's ridiculous).

 

[edit] unrelated to philosophy: open-book exams are the hardest forms of assessment, because it means the examiner has carte-blanche to set the questions as hard as they wish - give me closed-book or essays, any day.

[julwise]

I'm not real educated on philosophy, but the closest thing I can think of to Xan is Nihilism, which IIRC means you believe in nothing, and that all choice is pointless. But it's supposedly a hypocritical position because if someone believed there was no point to life they would logically kill themselves. It's not quite the same, but I'm not sure there is a philosophy quite as consistently negative as Xan's!