XP Tables

[Demivrgvs]

Imo, +3 levels from 40+ are really irrelevant.

At levels 8-11 it is relevant.

I'm not following you...care to explain?

 

Anyway, fine with me extending xp tables to level 50 (I already did it for clab files) for compatibility with tweaks which are actually not supposed to be used with KR. KR's classes should not go beyond level 30.

[kreso]

I don't understand Jarno as well....it is exactly because of 8-11 level difference that new tables are here...

[Jarno Mikkola]

Imo, +3 levels from 40+ are really irrelevant.

At levels 8-11 it is relevant.

I'm not following you...care to explain?

 

Anyway, fine with me extending xp tables to level 50

Yes, the simple explanation is that you have to make and implement the whole system, not just part of it ! As otherwise, someone, I and everyone else needs to do the work again after, or install a bunch of different variety of mods with different philosophies... which is %&/#&/(-ed system, get my point now !

 

And if you wish to then make it the rule system non house, you make it modifiable by adding components that effect the other tables... like say unnerfed spell casting and so on etc.

 

KR's classes should not go beyond level 30.

Well that might be true to the single classed 6 party groups without every quest done... but try the 2 party member play through and you find that the XP cap, any cap, becomes a hindrance, no matter what rule system you work under.

[Demivrgvs]

Yes, the simple explanation is that you have to make and implement the whole system, not just part of it ! As otherwise, someone, I and everyone else needs to do the work again after, or install a bunch of different variety of mods with different philosophies... which is %&/#&/(-ed system, get my point now !

Mmm...I still don't get it. I hope kreso or someone else does so they can explain it to me.

 

And if you wish to then make it the rule system non house, you make it modifiable by adding components that effect the other tables... like say unnerfed spell casting and so on etc.

?!? Why the hell should I add "unnerfed" spell casting, thac0 or whatever tables? o.O If someone wish to play with those completely broken and overpowered tables they can install them instead of KR's tables.

 

KR's classes should not go beyond level 30.

Well that might be true to the single classed 6 party groups without every quest done... but try the 2 party member play through and you find that the XP cap, any cap, becomes a hindrance, no matter what rule system you work under.

There's a reason xp caps exist (there should actually be more of them imo): they are there because with the current BG's xp system and without a DM controlling game balance, it's easy to completely ruin it with a small party of 2-3 god-like characters running against heavily outclassed opponents. I'm not the police and anyone can play the game as he prefers, but Revisions mods are not for power players, quite the opposite. If something has to be done, I'm fine making KR compatible with level 50, but that's it, don't ask me to make that broken system part of KR.

 

At level 30 the character has reached the maximum potential (and already more than any sane DM should allow imo), out leveling liches, the most powerful demons, and even ancient dragons. If you reach that level too fast because of power playing "good for you", enjoy your early god-like status and destroy everything on your sight.

[kreso]

Mmm...I still don't get it. I hope kreso or someone else does so they can explain it to me.

No, I'm afraid I can't.

 

And if you wish to then make it the rule system non house, you make it modifiable by adding components that effect the other tables... like say unnerfed spell casting and so on etc.

I think anybody, even with no modding experience, can even copy/paste any table he wants to. Revised Kits shouldn't be made to "be compatible" with that.

 

try the 2 party member play through and you find that the XP cap, any cap, becomes a hindrance, no matter what rule system you work under.

Shouldn't there be a cap, as per default? Even vanilla game had it. And it was very strict in BG2 without ToB, you could never get your druid to level 15 (which is in PnP pretty impossible to do anyway) and mages could never cast level 9 spells from their memory, only via scrolls.

It's the players/modders themselves who ruined the balance by introducing things such as un-nerfed THAC0, spellbooks, levels etc. Afterwards you hear people complain about how battles are too easy with their 33/28/36 fighter/mage/cleric with Grandmastery, or their solo level 39 Berserker in Underdark. Cool.

Sure, it's everybody's game, play it and tweak it as you wish.

However, making a mod which is to "please everyone" is a straight highway to disaster. Pick an audience (in this case, "not Powergamers") and stick with it.

For the latter, they can always stick to vanilla items such as Flail of Ages, SoTM, Vecna and a modded Kensai43/asassin49/Wild mage40 combo soloing Ascension under Time Stop. Throw in Spell50 mod, just to be safe.

[leania]

If you reach that level too fast because of power playing "good for you", enjoy your early god-like status and destroy everything on your sight.

 

Gods MUST go to the heaven and fight each other... Don't torment poor mortals!

[Ardanis]

I believe Jarno is concerned about compatibility with level 50 ruleset tweaks, and it's really up to us to make it work, because the existing tweaks are not intelligent enough to merge seamlessly with KR's tables. We can always add an option to choose the level cap manually, it's a simple task.

 

Thieves - ummm...I'm divided on this matter. It takes a long time (relatively speeking) to get them away from 8 HP and 1 lucky critical hit death. Moreover, with the abduance of traps/locked chests/pickpocket chances you won't be able to use all of your skills consistenty without potions. Not that this is a bad thing, however Asassin will suffer even more than before in BG1.

I have played BGT with multi-classed fighter/assassin and randomized (50%-200%) difficulty of locks/traps. IR's equipment has proven itself well for him - I was able to single-handedly wipe out an entire level in Cloakwood mines (20-30 guards).

 

Imoen was dualled into mage at 5th level, which didn't significantly impaired my ability to handle locks and few traps. I had to get creative sometimes, but didn't face any serious obstacles.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I think anybody, even with no modding experience, can even copy/paste any table he wants to. Revised Kits shouldn't be made to "be compatible" with that.

You don't get it, I don't want to manually do a job that you should be doing with a rule system of your own !

 

Shouldn't there be a cap, as per default? Even vanilla game had it. And it was very strict in BG2 without ToB, you could never get your druid to level 15 (which is in PnP pretty impossible to do anyway) and mages could never cast level 9 spells from their memory, only via scrolls.

Yeah, but if you go and set the xpcap.2da file read this:

2DA V1.0
2950000
					VALUE
MAGE					-1
FIGHTER				 -1
CLERIC				  -1
THIEF				   -1
BARD					-1
PALADIN				 -1
DRUID				   -1
RANGER				  -1
FIGHTER_MAGE			-1
FIGHTER_CLERIC		  -1
FIGHTER_THIEF		   -1
FIGHTER_MAGE_THIEF	  -1
MAGE_THIEF			  -1
CLERIC_MAGE			 -1
CLERIC_THIEF			-1
FIGHTER_DRUID		   -1
FIGHTER_MAGE_CLERIC	 -1
CLERIC_RANGER		   -1
MONK					-1
SORCERER				-1

Yep there's a few tabs that won't be seen easily so the whole thing looks crooked, it's not(supposed to).

And if you wish to go with xpcaps that are plenty, you take the grease approach and install this mod(Stage Based XP Cap).

 

I believe Jarno is concerned about compatibility with level 50 ruleset tweaks, and it's really up to us to make it work, because the existing tweaks are not intelligent enough to merge seamlessly with KR's tables.

Yeah and the fact that I want you to make an equal rule system so I can choose which one to use and not mix and match wasting every ones time.

 

Or you get to op the option to let me write the Imps unnerfed rule system.

 

And you could pickpocket say, Ring of Free Action in Ulgoth's Beard, as well as disarm/lockpick everything in Duralg's Tower?

I could with a little ShadowKeeper work yes. Easy, but this is not about that... but the fact that Imoen was assigned with a role that gave her the ability disarm traps, while there was another character to do the other aspects of the thieving while she took the caster power role.

 

PS, the lunumab.2da needs to be set to 18 on all the single classes.

 

I believe Jarno is concerned about compatibility with level 50 ruleset tweaks, and it's really up to us to make it work, because the existing tweaks are not intelligent enough to merge seamlessly with KR's tables.

Finally someone got it correctly...

[kreso]

Imoen was dualled into mage at 5th level, which didn't significantly impaired my ability to handle locks and few traps. I had to get creative sometimes, but didn't face any serious obstacles.

And you could pickpocket say, Ring of Free Action in Ulgoth's Beard, as well as disarm/lockpick everything in Duralg's Tower?

[Ardanis]

And you could pickpocket say, Ring of Free Action in Ulgoth's Beard, as well as disarm/lockpick everything in Duralg's Tower?

No idea about the ring, for some reason I almost never use the steal skill.

Not everything, but most of them. What I couldn't open manually, I Knock'ed open. As for traps, I set off few - again, nothing that would have blocked the progress. I played with auto-detection of traps though, so I knew when to stop and start searching, and what kind of effect to expect from a revealed trap.

 

My point is that a thief without 100% in every skill is a useful party member nonetheless, able to work his way through the majority of obstacles. And where he can't, there're other means, e.g. Knock.