How to prevent timed effects wearing off during Timestop?

[polytope]

Things like Blade Barrier, Teleport Fields and Cloudkills continue to tick during timestops, which is easy to work around with short duration 206, but what annoys me is the fact that short duration buffs like Protection from Magic Weapons and Improved Alacrity wear off during Timestops.

 

This makes it really hard to design multi-mage battles, the mages' buffs wear off during each others' TS, or even if they're scripted not to cast it, during the player's TS.

 

This contributes to the ToB portion of the game in being too easy IMO, solo mage or lich = no match for a 20+ level party. Multiple mages or liches = ruined by this bug because their protections wear off and they get vorpalled/dispelled with Carsomyr or interrupted by elemental damage weapons.

 

Thoughts?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Easy. Cast again.

 

PS, the Time Stop is not meant to be used in conjunction with Protection from Magic Weapons and Improved Alacrity. That's too much cheese. Just like casting 18 fireballs is under a time stop.

Yeah, you can actually do that, if you prepare correctly. But that's cheesy. As we know that not all players will be able to protect the characters from fire damage, let's make them -idiocy.

 

This contributes to the ToB portion of the game in being too easy IMO, solo mage or lich = no match for a 20+ level party. Multiple mages or liches = ruined by this bug because their protections wear off and they get vorpalled/dispelled with Carsomyr or interrupted by elemental damage weapons.

 

Thoughts?

Don't use cheese, but make it so that there's no need for it. Say like making the two lich work in conjunction, one has time stop, the other one has time stop immunity and have them both cast the one and only Protection from Magic Weapons spells they have during the (alleged)Time Stop spell(and if the player interrupts it, ahh, so the one lich dies, it's ups for the player, hurray). And make it a darn point to not give the liches any more spells than they need to have, just like the original game, and yeah, the mod needs to be installed only after the SCS or uninstalled if the SCS is installed(cause it changes the spell selections etc. making it cheesy wheezy.

 

The mission is to create harder battles, not almost impossible.

[polytope]

Jarno, somehow I knew you were going to reply to my topic.

 

And when I saw your reply, I knew it was going to be nonsense.

 

Why did I create this thread?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Why did I create this thread?

Perhaps because you wish to make an enemy encounter that is harder than one Lich.

And I gave you a way...

The reason why I say the above is that, if the Time Stop won't break the critical mass that makes the fight not intolerably difficult, the player is more than likely to allow it to happen. Without using their own cheese. Yes, I can make my mage able to kill your Lich_whatever even before it can take a step... I won't cause I don't want to invest everything in that approach and kill everything with it as I could, but it's not FUN !

 

Jarno, somehow I knew you were going to reply to my topic.

And when I saw your reply, I knew it was going to be nonsense.

With this reasoning, I would take that you didn't actually either read the reply or want to understand it. As you think I am not capable to make a reasonable reply.

[polytope]

Well Jarno, maybe I didn't understand your reply, but if I did you were saying:

1. Protection from Magic Weapons plus Improved Alacrity and Time Stop are too cheesy in combination
   
2. It's better just to give AI controlled mages immunity to Time Stop... that's supposed to be the less cheesy option???
   
3. Enemy mages should wait until their own TS is underway before casting ProMW, so it doesn't wear off. Except of course they won't get a slow-casting spell like TS off without ProMW, catch 22.
   

Maybe I encouraged this tangent by explaining a situation where the TS bug is important i.e. multi-mage fights, but what I really wanted to know is how to get around the broken game mechanic of timed effects expiring while time is supposed to be stopped - it's as annoying for me as those old, long-fixed bugs like AoE damage blocked by mirror images or dispelling the claws of polymorphed forms.

[kreso]

And when I saw your reply, I knew it was going to be nonsense.

[Jarno Mikkola]

1. Protection from Magic Weapons plus Improved Alacrity and Time Stop are too cheesy in combination.

2. It's better just to give AI controlled mages immunity to Time Stop... that's supposed to be the less cheesy option???

1. Yes...

2. Yes, if you do it with limitations. Did yo ever thing that the Time Stop could be stopped ? If there's only 1 Time Stop ever casted by the two liches, in the fight will be still relatively easy as the enemies can cast 6(two of which need to be the PfMW's) spells instead of 18 that a mage can do with your chosen spells. And you wish to make them able to use them.

As the immunity to the Time Stop gives both of the mages a simultaneous Time Stop, the effect is duplicated and the other doesn't need to cast his own! As he can continue casting his spells, even though they will only take effect after the Time Stop is ended, so it gives them the 3 free spells to cast, each. And if the player wishes to cast his own TS, he is kinda boosting the encounter, as that TS also works against him.

3. Well and you can't make the Time Stop be cast-able at a different times than the original ? I can, so why can't you ? Yes, with a casting of a different but almost identical spell, or using the TS via script line like ReallyForceSpell.. Also you can make a different spells that have near similar effects as the original spells... like say the PfMW that lasts for 6 turns(36 real seconds on 30fps), call it Time Casters Protection from Magical Weapons, and make it a level 8 spell(so you pick less Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting to be in the casters spellbook).

What about making the mages have contingencies that spam into action as they see the enemy(or after they are hit). That's doable. That and the Time Stop casted in them and you are on your way on making the encounter. *Also you then need to make darn sure that the encounter is doable with other than the one and only group you suggest to overcome it.

Or other ways, like first casting the TCPfMW on both mages, and then the Time Stop and the other mage casts say Spell Strike or Gate that finishes just in time to be Time Stopped(depending on what the player does). Then cast some other offensive spell that kill summons and or harms the group, and another Gate or similar... plah plah plah.

[CamDawg]

How to prevent timed effects wearing off during Timestop?

Can't, unfortunately.

This makes it really hard to design multi-mage battles, the mages' buffs wear off during each others' TS, or even if they're scripted not to cast it, during the player's TS.

There's always Detectable Spells to determine if buffs need to be re-upped. Sucks to waste a round re-casting, sure, but probably the simplest thing to be done.

[polytope]

I thought as much, since ApplySpell() still works under TS, I can have the AI controlled mage apply a no-animation ProMW lasting 5 rounds if for example Time Stop is cast when he has 2 rounds left. It's more fiddly with IA though, since that lasts a mere 2 rounds.

 

Unfortunately it's not going to work well with mods that give TS a duration of say 1d4 rounds rather than a fixed 3, and the player's buffs are still going to expire during TS (none of my mage scripts use it though).