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Dispel and breach suggestion


geg_Ma3gau

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Imo the base 50% chance to dispel is way too much because one dispel cast removes ~50% of your buffs. Base dispel chance should be more like 30% and the dispel magic should be further CAPPED IN POWER at 30-35%. it will make you spend a few dispel casts to acheive the same.

What this does: a bit less dispel chance, more dispel casts needed. Helps balance because buffs should have some longevity. Not PFMW tho

 

 

Also, breach could be reduced in power and PFMW too. to do this, pretty much eliminate any other spells from the breach list other then PFMW. then you will have a few options to tackle protections: breach PFMW and dispel-on-hit with carsomyr/staff of the magi/arrows. This also helps dispel on hit weapons in the way that they become more useful to remove stoneskins on hit which breach no longer can do. or spam dispel magic.

What this does:

-stoneskin becomes a bit better in comparison to PFMW (srsly, PFMW needs nerfing by alot)

-breach list greatly reduced to pretty much PFMW only (and analogues). things like shield, mage armor, spirit armor, freedom, chaotic commands and stoneskins MUST require proper dispel checks otherwise who needs dispel at all when you have 100% breach. Breach reduced in favor of dispel magic and on hit dispel

 

PFMW spoils the game imo. makes weapons like the antimagic carsomyr useless. Also, the dispelling axe you have included is like 25 times better then the carsomyr lol... because it ignores PFMW tackling that tavern fight with a level 9 party. its no fun when your buffs get removed with 1 dispel magic cast. Dispel should involve dice rolls and a few uses to acheive success, but no 100% magic removal ever. even if the opposing mage is +5 levels higher. this is not balanced or fun.

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-stoneskin becomes a bit better

This spell is already insane for it's level. It needs a nerf far more than PfMW. Sadly, the engine doesn't allow for much customization - I'd keep skins at 6 MAX. Still imba, but not as wild as now.

 

 

-breach list greatly reduced to pretty much PFMW only (and analogues). things like shield, mage armor, spirit armor, freedom, chaotic commands and stoneskins MUST require proper dispel checks otherwise who needs dispel at all when you have 100% breach.

I sympathize with this, but AI needs a fail-safe counter to PFME, Pro Fire, Chaotic Commands and similar.

 

 

PFMW spoils the game imo.

Normal weapons working vs it spoil the game much more, imo. It's a joke of a spell for the poor AI (bar RR CoC encounter, which are afaik the only enemies using non-enchanted weapons to counter it), and utterly powerful in the hands of the player.

Sadly, I cannot convice Demi to delete the crappy PFNormalWeapons and to make PFMW a "protection from *all* weapons" spell.

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Sadly, I cannot convice Demi to delete the crappy PFNormalWeapons and to make PFMW a "protection from *all* weapons" spell.

Let's assume for a moment that you convinced me (you almost did) and I "merge" the two spells into a ProWeapon (EE kindly changes the portrait icon string reference to make my life harder)...

 

Pro

- stop giving player the unfair defensive advantage

- stop players from bypassing it with non-magical weapons (kinda stupid mechanic)

Cons

- screw up RR's AI

- make PfMW even more powerful for players (albeit technically it's unchanged for 99% of enemies - 100% without RR)

- make PfMW even more powerful for AI (btw doesn't SCS use Mantles too now?)

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-stoneskin becomes a bit better

This spell is already insane for it's level. It needs a nerf far more than PfMW. Sadly, the engine doesn't allow for much customization - I'd keep skins at 6 MAX. Still imba, but not as wild as now.

 

 

-breach list greatly reduced to pretty much PFMW only (and analogues). things like shield, mage armor, spirit armor, freedom, chaotic commands and stoneskins MUST require proper dispel checks otherwise who needs dispel at all when you have 100% breach.

I sympathize with this, but AI needs a fail-safe counter to PFME, Pro Fire, Chaotic Commands and similar.

 

 

PFMW spoils the game imo.

Normal weapons working vs it spoil the game much more, imo. It's a joke of a spell for the poor AI (bar RR CoC encounter, which are afaik the only enemies using non-enchanted weapons to counter it), and utterly powerful in the hands of the player.

Sadly, I cannot convice Demi to delete the crappy PFNormalWeapons and to make PFMW a "protection from *all* weapons" spell.

 

skins imba at 4? well then there are mirror images at level 2 :D Skins arent too bad you can get on hit stunned held dispelled, level drained etc through it still

 

TLDR

 

-Breach needs to be greatly, greatly reduced: most spells need a proper dispel check not 100% 24/7 365 breach

 

-About PFMW: i dont abuse normal weapons but i agree PFMW should cover normal weapons as long as it exists at all. Maybe it shouldnt exist? :D. my biggest problem with this BAD spell is how it makes carsomyr and staff of the magi USELESS. you expect to dispel through mage's protections. weapon ineffective trololo.

 

-Dispel chance needs to be capped at ~30-35% in all cases even if 100 lvl mage dispels a lvl 1 mage. 1 dispel means you are stripped off 1/3 buffs. two dispels strip you of 5/9 buffs. This is close to appropriate. Currently 1 dispel from a proper mage dispels 100% of your party's buffs which is ridiculous and unbalanced. Most of the time the dispel happens it leads to lopsided effects currently either 100% dispelled or 0% dispelled. please think about it. At least give us an option i would love to playtest.

 

How do i disable holy/unholy word from my walkthrough? Another thing that breaks balance currently.

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-About PFMW: i dont abuse normal weapons but i agree PFMW should cover normal weapons as long as it exists at all. Maybe it shouldnt exist? :D. my biggest problem with this BAD spell is how it makes carsomyr and staff of the magi USELESS. you expect to dispel through mage's protections. weapon ineffective trololo.

This is easy to 'fix', just set the upper level of magic the protection to be 4 instead of the zero that protects from all levels... this also can be used as the excuse to add in the protection from non magical weapons. But it is likely to break the AI bad as having +5 weapons will make all the hard battles quite piece of cake. But that's exactly what you are asking so. Well of course you still need to do the hitting and that's going to be quite hard and so forth, anyways.

 

And we can make all the desired enemy (RR) weapons to be +5 enchanted instead of non magical. And no, that doesn't mean we need to actually edit their damage or thac0 variable, as we only need to edit the main weapons enhancement level(offset 0x0060), and mark/flag it magical(offset 0x0018). At least I think so.

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Cons

- screw up RR's AI

Well, player won't actually notice it (RR Readme will say that enemies will try to bypass PFMW with normal weapons; they'll fail but....it's nothing drastic).

Fwiw, I found that a Chain Contingency 3xADHW/Enemy sighted obliterates half of the enemies in this battle anyway. :D

Imp.Haste tweak messes up RR AI far more than this.

 

 

- make PfMW even more powerful for players (albeit technically it's unchanged for 99% of enemies - 100% without RR)

- make PfMW even more powerful for AI (btw doesn't SCS use Mantles too now?)

SCS does use Mantles, yes. Not on Liches/Rakshasa, but other mages use them. If you're worried about making spell more powerful, let me remind you that in PnP it's duration is even longer than 4 rounds (scales with levels).

If you want to "keep it in check" increase casting time. (to 3-4). If you keep Mantle, Imp,Mantle and Apsolute Immunity at CT=1 they'd be far superior for casting in the thick of battle, while PfMW would be best used as Contingency/Trigger/short-buff.

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SCS does use Mantles, yes. Not on Liches/Rakshasa, but other mages use them.

Then the instances where players can exploit PfMW weakness are limited, and the AI "abuse" innate resistances as expected. It's not a perfect world but at least that even the odds between player (ab)use and AI. No?

 

Mind you, I do agree the whole "carry along non-magical weapons to bypass PfMW" is incredibly stupid, but if we remove such weakness why would liches/rakshasas still pick PfMW over the now superior options within SR? Because Mantle isn't a 100% immunity (though attacking it is almost a death sentence right now - next build will slightly nerf it) and Moment of Prescience lets you vulnerable to critical hits?

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I am on Demi about keeping the PfNW and PfMW separate and distinct and I hope in this case he won't be convinced to change.

 

Not only for practical reasons but also for flavor and compatibility with the original game. A point in case example: the Monk. It acquires Protection from Normal Weapons at Level 20 and removing that kind of ability from the spells would break consistency.

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but if we remove such weakness why would liches/rakshasas still pick PfMW over the now superior options within SR?

Since at level 7 they can use that slot for Finger of Death and at lvl 8 they can slot ADHW; yet have no need for Globe of Invulnerability due to innate spell level immunity.

 

 

I am on Demi about keeping the PfNW and PfMW separate and distinct and I hope in this case he won't be convinced to change.

 

Not only for practical reasons but also for flavor and compatibility with the original game. A point in case example: the Monk. It acquires Protection from Normal Weapons at Level 20 and removing that kind of ability from the spells would break consistency.

By the time you get immunity to normal weapons (either Monk or good path in Hell trials); it's beyond useless aside tanking several Orog batches beneath Gromnir's castle. Actually, you need Hell trials immunity to +1 as well to do that.

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