interesting findings about speed weapons

[subtledoctor]

It seems like it works the same on both. I've tested BGEE, IWDEE, and BGT+TobEx.

 

I haven't tested BGT without TobEx, and I haven't applied the "no cosmetic attacks" setting to find out exactly which attacks happen when, and by which hand.

 

But the presence of TobEx shouldn't change this. It's a question of how opcode 1 works when it "sets" APR. It looks like it sets the weapon APR, not the character APR. So yeah, it looks like this "fixes" Belm.

 

And, happily, it's super easy to apply, it just needs something like this

COPY_EXISTING ~(Belm.itm)~ ~override~
   LPF ALTER_EFFECT INT_VAR match_opcode = 1 parameter1 = 2 parameter2 = 1 END
BUT_ONLY

[lynx]

weapons have no inherent APR, so this is weird. Adding other APR items on top could screw it up further, but reduce tunnel vision.

 

the animation timing is controlled via a few BAM files, no kidding. There are some fake swings/... in there to make combat look more natural.

[Jarno Mikkola]

the animation timing is controlled via a few BAM files, no kidding. There are some fake swings/... in there to make combat look more natural.

The ToBEx fix replaces those with non actiony animations. Among other things.

[subtledoctor]

Yes, and EE (as of v1.4, at least) has incorporated the TobEx option as an .ini option.

 

weapons have no inherent APR, so this is weird. Adding other APR items on top could screw it up further, but reduce tunnel vision.

That's the thing. Wielding 2x Belm, with no other bonuses, you should have 4 APR. Presumably that's 3 main-hand and 1 off-hand. (Both Belms have a +1 APR effect, and I assume both are plied to the main-hand.)

 

I edited the item to *set* APR to 2. Now, I expected wielding 2x edited Belms to give you 3 total APR. In fact that was my desired result!

 

But instead, you get 4 APR. I don't have a good explanation for that, other than that the "set APR" effect is applied on a per-weapon basis.

 

Lynx, you know the engine pretty well - do you have an idea how that could happen? I suppose it could just be a bug with the opcode, or something.

[Mike1072]

I can't replicate these findings on vanilla ToB or IWDEE.

 

With no extra proficiency or warrior bonuses, equipping two non-magical weapons gives a total ApR of 2.

 

Wielding a weapon that increases ApR by 1 in the main hand or the off hand (with a non-magical weapon in the other) gives a total ApR of 3. Wielding two of these weapons simultaneously gives a total ApR of 4.

 

Wielding a weapon that sets ApR to 2 in either the main hand or the off hand (with a non-magical weapon in the other) gives a total ApR of 3. Wielding two of these weapons simultaneously gives the same total ApR of 3. They don't appear to stack.

[Fiann of the Silver Hand]

Maybe lack of coffee, but I'm struggling to understand what that has to do with opcode 1 and weapon APR...

 

Nothing.

[subtledoctor]

I can't replicate these findings on vanilla ToB or IWDEE.

 

I was about to go nuts figuring out how that could be, but then I re-read this thread and saw that once I got down to testing this more thoroughly, I was using items that set APR to 3/2 and not items that set APR to 2. So it must be something to do with that half attack.

 

Sorry to get your hopes up Demi!

[lynx]

and you get 4 out of that? oO

[subtledoctor]

No - with 2 weapons that both set APR to 3/2, I expect to get 5/2 (3/2 main hand + 1 off-hand). But instead I get 3. I can't figure out how or why.

[lynx]

Are you using fighters with their class bonuses?

 

Can you check with APR1/APR2, so we can see if your results agree with Mike's?

 

Besides what actually ends up being used, there could be a display bug in GUIREC.

[subtledoctor]

My test involved a level 1 fighter with and proficiency (+) in daggers and specialization (++) in short swords . He had 2 normal short swords, and 2 daggers modified to use opcode 1 as an equipping effect with parameter2 set to 1 (set APR) and parameter1 set to 7 (3/2).

 

Results:

1 short sword = 3/2 APR

1 dagger = 3/2 APR

2 short swords = 5/2 APR

2 daggers = 3 APR (<-- odd result)

dagger main-hand, short sword off-hand = 5/2 APR

short sword main-hand, dagger off-hand = 3 APR

 

I can check results with "set APR" equipping effects for other values (1, 2, and 5/2 would probably be useful) but I won't have the opportunity to do so until next week.

[lynx]

the pattern I see there is that perhaps they hacked in basic "small weapons" bonus for off-hand, like in iwd2. But then it would be visible also without any opcodes.