[Ideas] Quest solving SoD story conseqences for SoA

[Roxanne]

 

I'm in the same boat as jastey.

 

For me as a player it is just unfinished business that I want to see resolved. Your Charname being a wanted murderer changes my perception of the whole game. It makes me feel uneasy.

 

Moreover, most of my characters are good aligned and would definitely want to save Skie (who might even be a former group comrade) especially since they were so closely involved in her death. After all she does get killed because of Charname.

 

All that aside, even some of my evil characters would probably want to solve this issue. It is not only a big stain on their reputation but it also means they can no longer travel to Baldur's Gate and its surrounding areas without the risk of being arrested. The characters don't know the story won't ever take them back to Baldur's Gate, so that point is irrelevant for their motivation.

 

Also, the whole point of the EET is to provide an continuous open world experience. When I first heard that you would be able to re-visit old areas I was thrilled and now this plot makes that almost impossible.

 

 

In any case, it is not a problem and it is nothing that needs to be urgently solved to make EET happen. BGT has existed all the time without you having a chance to revisit the old areas..

 

I agree with you on that, EET works even without a solution to this issue.

 

Nonetheless this issue does take something away from the EET.

I'm sure K4htos did originally plan for Baldur's Gate to be open to to player.

You have some good arguments to push for a solution.

Yes, player has no knowledge that he can avoid Baldur's Gate.

And nobody would like to be seen as a wanted murderer knowing one is innocent - even if the law cannot directly get you.

Overall it leaves a very bad taste for most players to have this open issue even if gamewise you may not need to resolve it.

 

Good thing is - it provides the topic for one or more good mods to bring another new challenge to BG2 - get Imoen AND prove your innocence AND kick Irenicus for being the source of both problems.

 

Having looked at the whole situation of the PC after BG1 and SoD a little bit closer, I have come to the conclusion that the situation actually fits far better into the game than it may have occured at first glance. /shock

 

Without this suspected murder, the PC would be the shining hero who saved Baldur's Gate twice, once from Sarevok and again from the Crusade. He/she would have support and resources and reputation without end, even in Athkatla. The new situation of being unwanted on the Sword Coast and again a doubtable character with the taint of Bhaal's blood (maybe even a murderer because of this?) makes the SoA and ToB story far more plausible. PC is again on his own, needs to rely on a handful of loyal companions (or companions that help PC for whatever motifs), needs to work for various parties to get money, needs to fight and defend him/herself etc.

 

Whenever there appears some light at the end of the tunnel (finding love, gaining a stronghold, gaining reputation by heroic deeds) - the next moment it may just be shattered again, because you are a bhaalspawn and you cannot escape this trap - not until you go all the way and fight for it until the bitter end at the throne of your *father*. You will always be a dubious character for the masses of Faerun as long as you carry the taint of Bhaal - and the masses are always willing to blame you if something goes wrong. Only few will believe in you and stand by you - officials and rulers will tolerate you as long as you are useful and drop you the moment there is any doubt.

 

The masses will celebrate you one moment and crucify you the next - Faerun society is not that different from any *modern* one in this respect. In some way this is the challenge of EET and should be considered when trying to produce a mod that *solves* the issue. Consequently one should be careful not to aim at some *glorious* return to Baldur's Gate but maybe be content with a solution in which the PC is not arrested and hanged there right away.

[jastey]

Yes, I agree it makes sense, and BGII also states that some events made the PC leave BG city under dark circumstances (something along these lines, I wanted to re-read the exact wording but didn't so far). But for me it is a great difference whether it is "only" the people that are afraid and blame the PC (I.e. the good ending) or whether it is the city authorities also believing the PC to be guilty. And it is a great difference for me (and continuity) whether the city authorities help the PC escape or whether he has to murder his way out of prison (I.e. the evil assassin ending).

All in all you are right, of course. BeamDog basically boiled the "dark circumstances" from BGII down to a framed murder by Irenicus' doing. Considering it this way, it's actually a brilliant concept. I only wished it was implemented in a more coherent way. EDIT: sorry I was so absorbed in my need for lamenting that I actually missed your suggestion for EET continuity. Well, I have no doubt the masses in BG city will continue to be very suspicious, no matter how great the Dukes would celebrate CHARNAME's rehabilitation.

 

 

(And I really do not know how to build the bridge from BG1 to BGII for the Ajantis romance. He would never, never want to marry the PC after this unresolved event. No matter whether he believes her to be guilty or not, he would shy away to marry a person with such negative reputation. And this is a torment he has to go through on his own, not knowing where the PC actually is, until he sees her again in BGII and is all happy about it. I have no clue how to solve this, yet. Maybe I can take advantage of his naivete, making him believe that if he knows she is innocent, people are supposed to see it in time, too, totally underestimating the effect of reputation and mobs and prejudices. Hm, not a bad concept. Sorry for the OT)

[Roxanne]

I cannot imagine that any of the PC's companions would really believe in this forged murder accusation, not just because they know and believe in the PC but simply because they are far too familiar with the circumstances.

• They were there when the PC met several times with the victim (maybe she was even in the party and ressurected several times by her *murderer*). If there was any motif of the PC to get rid of her, they would know - and there were a lot of more suitable occasions to do the deed in some dungeon where nobody would find the corpse than to do it in the middle of a castle filled with flaming fists.
• The PC murdering the girl - then get rid of the weapon somehow - then fall down unconcious beside the victim - who believes such a tale (other than a grieving father or an angry mob)??
• None of the comrads have yet seen the Slayer, this is yet to happen much later in the Asylum.
• All in the party know that even with Dragonspear solved there is still the threat of the *hooded man*, they all have encountered the guy several times. This deed has his name (even if they not yet know the name itself) written all over.

In summary - none of the party members would believe the whole murder story for just a single moment and thus turn from the PC as a reason of such a cheap intrigue, they have been through much worse together already. Depending on their individual character, the companions would rather have a greater or smaller interest to get the true culprit and to restore their reputation.

[jastey]

I agree to everything you said.

 

Only thing is, if we follow the path BeamDog (and BioWare) designed for CHARNAME, it means that more and more of the evil hertage tries to come to the surface. Half of BGII deals with this (slayer change) and ToB, well... it's a bloodshed chaos written "Bhaal heritage" all over it. I think BeamDog tried to tie this in, with the incident on the bridge. If we take this and the fact that the PC just returned from hell (who knows what happened there to him/her to set any evil godly powers free*), we have a situation where a paladin (of Helm of all deities, god of vigilance and duty) would get very, very nervous whom he proposed to.

 

But I think, as you said, we are still on safe ground in SoD. Yes, there was the incident on the bridge, yes, maybe the PC mumbled something about strange dreams of a hooded figure, but all in all, the slayer change and all the fear of the evil heritage seeking a way out is still far away and unrealistic - for the comrades and the ones who know CHARNAME. With Ajantis already far away and seeing the SoD incidents from a distance (as I imagine him), he could trust in his own view on his betrothed and sugarcoat the incident. BUT he would have to know about the murder being done by the Hooded Man, and he would need backup at least from one Duke stating that the Duke believes the PC to be innocent. (Which makes the evil assassin ending so totally desastrous, as I stated on several occasions already and will probably keep on doing until I'll resolve this issue for my Ajantis mod..)

 

*that's what the people could think, at least

[bob_veng]

@ Roxanne, you said:

 

Without this suspected murder, the PC would be the shining hero who saved Baldur's Gate twice, once from Sarevok and again from the Crusade. He/she would have support and resources and reputation without end, even in Athkatla. The new situation of being unwanted on the Sword Coast and again a doubtable character with the taint of Bhaal's blood (maybe even a murderer because of this?) makes the SoA and ToB story far more plausible. PC is again on his own, needs to rely on a handful of loyal companions (or companions that help PC for whatever motifs), needs to work for various parties to get money, needs to fight and defend him/herself etc.

 

I think that my scenario is okay in this regard right? If you gain the Dukes' support (the "good" SoD ending) they only support you if it brings you closer to solving the crime (which ultimately helps them clear the political mess at home resulting from their association with a bhaalspawn), and after y definitively prove your innocence, they actually help you materially, but this can only happen just prior to Suldanessellar.

 

I think that the only sensible help at this point would be gold.

 

What else could they concievably offer to you at that stage? You're already legendarily powerful (having beaten all those foes, having come out of the Underdark etc.) - would they send the Flaming Fist there to help you, to that legendary, mythical elven realm? I don't think they'd believe it's an appropriate job for them, and after all, it's outside of the Dukes' jurisdiction.

 

I also don't think that the Dukes would want to intercede for you in Amn, in order for Amn to give you an army to take to Suldanessellar, knowing that the rulers of Amn only worry about money, and not even the four dukes have enough money to buy off Amn which is supposed to be by far the richest nation.