[Ideas] Quest solving SoD story conseqences for SoA

[Roxanne]

I'm in the same boat as jastey.

 

For me as a player it is just unfinished business that I want to see resolved. Your Charname being a wanted murderer changes my perception of the whole game. It makes me feel uneasy.

 

Moreover, most of my characters are good aligned and would definitely want to save Skie (who might even be a former group comrade) especially since they were so closely involved in her death. After all she does get killed because of Charname.

 

All that aside, even some of my evil characters would probably want to solve this issue. It is not only a big stain on their reputation but it also means they can no longer travel to Baldur's Gate and its surrounding areas without the risk of being arrested. The characters don't know the story won't ever take them back to Baldur's Gate, so that point is irrelevant for their motivation.

 

Also, the whole point of the EET is to provide an continuous open world experience. When I first heard that you would be able to re-visit old areas I was thrilled and now this plot makes that almost impossible.

 

 

In any case, it is not a problem and it is nothing that needs to be urgently solved to make EET happen. BGT has existed all the time without you having a chance to revisit the old areas..

 

I agree with you on that, EET works even without a solution to this issue.

 

Nonetheless this issue does take something away from the EET.

I'm sure K4htos did originally plan for Baldur's Gate to be open to to player.

You have some good arguments to push for a solution.

Yes, player has no knowledge that he can avoid Baldur's Gate.

And nobody would like to be seen as a wanted murderer knowing one is innocent - even if the law cannot directly get you.

Overall it leaves a very bad taste for most players to have this open issue even if gamewise you may not need to resolve it.

 

Good thing is - it provides the topic for one or more good mods to bring another new challenge to BG2 - get Imoen AND prove your innocence AND kick Irenicus for being the source of both problems.

[Roxanne]

Another idea of why you want to solve the SoD problem and return to Baldur's Gate:

SoD introduced Corwin as joinable NPC and some romance may develop during the brief period of the extension - however it is interrupted by the events and the could-be couple is separated.

In order to continue and sort things out (she is a flaming fist officer!) you need to solve the open issues.

Could make a nice new romance mod and give you a new NPC for BG2-part/ToB in the end.

[Ulb]

Aye, a Corwin mod would definitely have to resolve this issue before it could even get started with anything else. I think it would make a great npc mod.

 

The thing is, if Beamdog plans to release any of the SoD npcs as a DLC for BG2 Corwin is probably at the top of their list. So I'm not sure if anyone is willing to invest a lot of time and effort into a mod that might very well be more or less obsolete in the near future.

 

In any case, I still think there are more than enough reasons as it stands right now to warrant a stand-alone mod.

[K4thos]

spoilers from the end of game regarding Corwin:

 

not sure if this can be resolved differently (probably yes if you chose different replies) but if I remember correctly in my game Corwin was slaughtered by other Flaming Fists members during Baldur's Gate escape, somewhere around this section. I don't think she would remain flaming fist officer after such event even if resurrected. Probably arrested and maybe even death sentenced for helping you in escape.

 

[Ulb]

Interesting

 

 

 

She definitely survived my ending though I played kind of evil so she had no reason to defend my character. Did you get freed by Imoen's thief or did the Dukes orchestrate your escape?

 

[Roxanne]

Interesting

 

 

 

She definitely survived my ending though I played kind of evil so she had no reason to defend my character. Did you get freed by Imoen's thief or did the Dukes orchestrate your escape?

 

 

In my version I was freed by Imoen's hireling AND Corwin survived although she was helping my escape. SoD is not as bad as many make it appear, there are quite some different ways through the episode.

 

Furthermore, we were starting an initial romance even though my PC was female neutral evil.

 

 

[Ulb]

Not saying SoD is bad. Overall I like it quite a bit.

It's just the conflict with IWD which bothers me a bit (though I do not blame Beamdog for that, after all it only affects this specific type of mod and without it having a refference to another IE game is better than not having one..) and of course the whole plot we're discussing here. I just feel that Charname being a Bhaal spawn would have been enough to explain the need to leave BG. (The bridge event was a nice touch in that regard.)

 

Anyway, as for Corwin's job:

I'm just wondering if she necessarily ends up on odd terms with the Flaming Fist/Dukes (other Than Silvershield). If the Dukes free you I would imagine she has no need to turn against anyone and would probably remain in the Fist.

 

[Psionica]

Does anyone else suspect Skie as being another of Bhaal's children? I finished SoD today, not a bad tie in from BG1 to BgII. My character developed a semi romance so to speak with Corwin. Now that this game is out, makes me wonder what happened to her during BGII. I found the soultaker dagger in BGII, if its the same dagger they would have to change the decription to include skie's soul. When I origianally played BG1, i never used skie in my party, seemed to childish. And i didnt care for that Eldoth toon. After playing SoD, i wouldnt mind seeing skie brought back for BGII. It would be wrong to leave the game the way SoD does with no resoultion.

[bob_veng]

this is how it could go:

 

1. You can find some inconclusive evidence in Chateau Irenicus that Irenicus is behind Skie's murder; you can also miss it of course

 

2. In SoA, when you settle in a stronghold (which means that your presence in the region has become more widely known), Corwin, who has been actively looking for you on her own iniative, learns about your whereabouts and sends you a letter: she requests a meeting

 

3. You meet someplace outdoors; Corwin is accompanied by 2-3 (ex-) Flaming Fist who are loyal to her; she is still very tense and suspicious of you but asks if you've learned anything in the meantime; you can ask for a secret audience with the dukes in order to try to convince them again of your innocence and tell them what you've learned about Irenicus so far: if you have the (inconclusive) evidence* OR if you had a romance with Corwin OR if you pass a super hard attribute check she accepts to help you, otherwise she declines and she can even turn hostile (if you're being a jerk)

* if you already have the dagger, move to around the middle of 4.a)

 

4. Corwin goes back to BG, talks to the dukes, and the plot branches:

a) if the Dukes secretely exiled you from the City (if you got the "good" SoD ending)

you get a message from the four of them in which they claim they lean on your side; the evidence (if offered to Corwin) isn't enough to publicly exculpate you; they can not and will not arrange a secret audience; however they are willing to offer you some form of help if it will bring you closer to obtaining definitive evidence and perhaps even finding the Soultaker dagger

- only when you go to storm the Vampires you can take the Dukes' offer (you will send a courier from your stronghold) and they will send a party headed by Corwin to help you.

- in the Bodhi's lair there will be the Soultaker dagger

- Corwin takes it (you can't keep it) and you head to Baldur's Gate together and watch the cutscene of Skie's revival

- The Dukes order Corwin to accompany you in order to defeat Irenicus and give you a monetary reward (money is useless by now, i know, but hey - you get Corwin!); Skie isn't allowed to join you and isn't feeling well anyway

- You can now freely move in the city of BG

- Eventually, you will be able to find Skie who is looking for you (in the stronghold i guess) so you can have her join too

 

b) if you escaped with the "help" of the Shadow Thieves (the "bad" SoD ending)

you don't get a message at all, however: in a waylay zone which isn't a combat encounter at all but a weird spooky episode where your character senses she's being watched, you can (if you react well) intercept a Flaming Fist scout and learn about a plan to ambush you at your stronghold...in fact, Entar has made a pact with one of the organizations in Amn and you suffer a difficult ambush at or near your stronghold

- it might have implications for your companions: if the stronghold is the thieves guild, The Radiant Heart will be the attackers and Keldorn might turn on you; if it's De'Arnise Keep, the Red Wizards might be the attackers and Edwin might suddenly betray you etc.

- after the slaughter, all your ties will have been severed with the City of Baldur's Gate (can't go there), you won't see Corwin again, and Skie will not be raised from the dead, because there will be no one to turn the Soultaker dagger to when you find it.

- beating the attackers yields some excellent loot (what it is depends on who the ambushers were); eventually, when you find the dagger, you might be tempted to use it (restricted to evil) because it's a very good dagger...these are the ultimate rewards for getting the "bad" SoD ending

 

b') if you escaped with the "help" of Shadow Thieves (the "bad" SoD ending) AND saved Eltan in BG1 AND have a pretty good reputation

you get a message just from Eltan in which he says he believes you (in part because you saved him) but that you should've kept a low profile and that Entar, who isn't being very rational these days, is looking to kill you; Eltan has ordered Corwin to lead a clandestine expedition from sword coast to help you defend from Entar but he implores you to use her aid futher, in order find the dagger and resolve the tragic affair because it is causing political upheaval at home.

- At the ambush, there's Corwin and some elite Flaming Fist helping you /remember Eltan is the sole leader of the Flaming Fist/. After the fight she'll *demand* to join and be all like "let's go find the dagger". If you show reluctance, she'll turn hostile and attack with the rest of the expedition.

- If you accept, the rest proceeds normally: you find the dagger in Bodhi's lair and take it to Baldur's Gate

[jastey]

There is a dagger named "Soultaker Dagger" already in BGII:EE (OHHPHREY.ITM). It's a weapon to a cre named Phreya (OHHPHREY.CRE) in OH7300.ARE which seems to be part of Hexxat's quest. I am not sure Beamdog spent too much thought on how to close that hole when designing SoD. :-(

[bob_veng]

that's not a discrepancy! "soultaker" is a concept of a weapon that captures souls, not a proper name. you can have as many different soultaker daggers (and other kinds of items) as you need to, and they needn't have the same properties either. that's how i see it at least.

 

there's one in bg1 too.

 

bg wiki:

"The Soultaker Dagger was used by Durlag Trollkiller to capture the soul of powerful demon by the name of Aec'Lecet many years ago. This dagger is a like normal dagger, when the properties of the weapon are compared, it only has a higher item value and a better look in BG:EE. Hurgan Stoneblade in Ulgoth's Beard Inn requests you to retrieve this dagger from Durlag's Tower in his subquest. This dagger is retrieved when the party reaches the lowest level of the dungeon and kills the Demonknight. When the dagger is brought to Ulgoth's Beard, the group will have an encounter with members of some cult. Regardless of the outcome, the members of this cult will gain the dagger and revive the demon Aec'Letec, which you'll have to kill. This item appears in Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition."

[jastey]

Is there any canon lore about this? The way the Dukes speak of the dagger taking Skie's soul although it is no longer there made me believe there is only one. (Otherwise, if there are several weapons / items of this sort, why would they talk about a soultaker dagger).

[bob_veng]

they suspect a soultaker dagger was used because of the circumstances of her death:

 

1. they can't rez her (which means that either her soul is stranded somewhere and can't reconnect with the body or the soul is destroyed)

2. she's been stabbed

 

so i'd say they aren't 100% certain that it's the soultaker dagger, but they can be pretty sure

 

edit: dunno about p&p; imho the games are abundantly clear about soultaker daggers being a genus, not a unique item or a bunch of some samely named unrelated items

[Roxanne]

they suspect a soultaker dagger was used because of the circumstances of her death:

 

1. they can't rez her (which means that either her soul is stranded somewhere and can't reconnect with the body or the soul is destroyed)

2. she's been stabbed

 

so i'd say they aren't 100% certain that it's the soultaker dagger, but they can be pretty sure

 

edit: dunno about p&p; imho the games are abundantly clear about soultaker daggers being a genus, not a unique item or a bunch of some samely named unrelated items

Apart from the instances you already quoted the concept of items (mostly weapons) able to capture souls appears in the BG trilogy numerous times, see also Cyric's Godsbane short sword (it not only killed Bhaal but also Midnight's companion Kelemvor whose soul was captured in the sword until Cyric and Midnight/Mystra were elevated to gods - Kelemvor's soul was set free by AO himself who made Kelemvor a god as well - and Mystra and Cyric became archenemies among the gods....). Other examples are the Lich in Amkethran holding the merchant's daughters soul or Irenicus, especially in Longer Road when he captures the sparks of the defeated Bhaalspawns.

PS - in the SoD variation I played, the soul taker dagger was explicitly mentioned by Eltan at the PC's trial.

 

So - are you writing this mod?

 

In an earlier post I already revealed that I have a relatively simple solution included in my own mod - but just because I need access to Baldur's Gate City at a later time in the game. However, I consider my variant just for contingency only to be used if no better quest is available for the player. (I have coded it in a way that it could easily detect the globals of your mod and be de-activated if that plot is chosen by the player.)

[bob_veng]

 

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So - are you writing this mod?

 

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nope!