List of quest and content mods by balance type

[Lightbringer]

I'd like to start a list, based on community input, of which EET-ready mods try to approximate the balance level of vanilla BG, and which ones do not.

 

For convenience, I've spoilered out the background explanation:

 

 

 

From discussions with Roxanne and others, I've come to understand that some of the "big" mods are designed to work together to create an altogether differently balanced Baldur's Gate experience -- from Candlekeep to the Throne. You may be handed a +3 weapon right off the bat at level one, but the assumption is not that you'll just be fighting gibberlings and war dogs in the early sword coast -- I assume due to loads of extra and tougher content.

 

The problem is, I have yet to see a mod indicate -- in its readme or homepage -- that it has such a different idea of game balance when compared to vanilla. I do like the idea of playing a majorly souped up game of power-cheese. Give me dual wielding Holy Avengers in Candlekeep, and then send beholder packs after me at the FAI. Sounds like a blast. First, however, I want to play a normal game of EET. I'd like to cut my teeth on gibberlings and war dogs and see the vanilla balance of the game from Keep to Throne. Then I'll go take it up to 11 for another playthrough.

 

In that vein, I hope folks will help me categorize mods from the BWS Quest and Big categories as Vanilla or Power balanced. This will help players of all types to get the play through they want. As one forum poster put it "I want my third level party to have third level adventures". There's a market for both.

 

One note on vanilla balance. For purposes of this list, I'm ok with things being a little more powerful than vanilla. I think one of the deficits of BG1 was how rare any magic item +2 or higher was. There was a dramatic difference when you got to Athkatla, and suddenly +2 and +3 weapons were immediately available. Big power jump.

 

Smoothing that out a little is fine. What I'm wanting to categorize is mods where you getting handed +3 weapons on the direct path to the Nashkell mines, and then you have a surplus of them sitting in your pack (not to mention a few +4 armors) by the time you exit. That just happened to me and inspired this post.

 

 

 

 

To start off. I'll categorize the ones I can speak to from my own personal experience. I've pulled a list of all entries from BWS under Big Mods and Quest mods, for an EET setup. By all means, disagree and comment. This list should have nothing to do with the quality of a mod's contents, writing, etc -- only the relative balance level as compared to vanilla expectations. An obvious YMMV warning applies to this whole idea

 

POWER

Dark Horizons

Sandrah Saga

Twas a Slow Boat from Kara Tur * (smooths out power curve a little)

Drizzt Saga

The Darkest Day

Gray Clan Episode 1 (standard version)

Dark Side of the Sword Coast

Northern Tales of the Sword Coast

 

VANILLA

Unfinished Business (BG1 & 2)

BG1 Mini Quests and Encounters

Fading Promises

Lure of the Siren's Call

Back to Brynnlaw

Dungeon Crawl

Elistraee's Song

Fishing for Trouble

Colors of Infinity -- Innershade

Colors of Infinity -- I shall never forget

Colors of Infinity -- White Queen

Colors of Infinity -- Tales of the Deep Gardens

Grey Clan Episode 1 (light version)

Reunion

Sellswords

Stone of Askavar

Assassinations

Ding0's Quest Pack

Tower of Deception (Tactical options in BWS are Power)

 

 

* I think Slow Boat belongs somewhere halfway between the two categories. It does feature a fight that is a difficult challenge, for the area, but yet is quite winnable. The items you can buy are a variety of mid-high BG1 tier, focusing on Asian themes. I am biased as several of the items make playing a monk through BG1 much more bearable, and I love to play monks. Clearly, "Your Mileage May Vary."

[Roxanne]

Move from Vanilla to Power

Twas a Slow Boat from Kara Tur >>> final battle and items you can purchase

(? which one is it?) >>>> puts tough monsters (e,g skelleton lords) in BG1 area spawns

 

Move To Power

Drizzt Saga

The Darkest Day

Tower of Deception >>> the added option when the mage himself appears

Gray Clan Episode 1 >>> partly (there is a *light* version but I never used it, so I cannot comment)

 

 

Maybe also add some words in how power and strategic (as e.g. BWS supports it) are different in your assessment. Not to forget the issue that more contents/challenges/quests per se re-balance the game by making your party gain more xp and level in relation to original contents.

Also to consider that EET makes it one world to explore, i.e. the barriers between BG1 and SoA or ToB and SoD are torn down and you can do a BG1 quest now with your ToB party by re-visiting the BG1 areas any time later.

[Lightbringer]

Move from Vanilla to Power

Twas a Slow Boat from Kara Tur >>> final battle and items you can purchase

(? which one is it?) >>>> puts tough monsters (e,g skelleton lords) in BG1 area spawns

 

Move To Power

Drizzt Saga

The Darkest Day

Tower of Deception >>> the added option when the mage himself appears

Gray Clan Episode 1 >>> partly (there is a *light* version but I never used it, so I cannot comment)

 

Thanks for your input. Entries moved.

 

YMMV, I think, applies to Slow Boat. The items you purchase are more powerful than standard vanilla BG1, but only by a little. I wasn't bothered by it. What I'm most concerned about are mods that add items early in BG1 that far outclass gear you get from clearing your class stronghold in Amn. I went ahead and moved though, with a caveat. I suppose we should stick to strict ideas about vanilla, instead of my own personal whims and ideas

 

As far as the mod currently classified as vanilla that adds skeleton lords and others to vanilla spawn lists, I have no idea. I've played full BG1 runs on TuTu with Lure, Mini Quests, and UB, and never found Skelly Lords out of place, iirc. I think I only found them in the Thieves Maze and the Undercity.

[Roxanne]

 

Move from Vanilla to Power

Twas a Slow Boat from Kara Tur >>> final battle and items you can purchase

(? which one is it?) >>>> puts tough monsters (e,g skelleton lords) in BG1 area spawns

 

Move To Power

Drizzt Saga

The Darkest Day

Tower of Deception >>> the added option when the mage himself appears

Gray Clan Episode 1 >>> partly (there is a *light* version but I never used it, so I cannot comment)

 

Thanks for your input. Entries moved.

 

YMMV, I think, applies to Slow Boat. The items you purchase are more powerful than standard vanilla BG1, but only by a little. I wasn't bothered by it. What I'm most concerned about are mods that add items early in BG1 that far outclass gear you get from clearing your class stronghold in Amn. I went ahead and moved though, with a caveat. I suppose we should stick to strict ideas about vanilla, instead of my own personal whims and ideas

 

As far as the mod currently classified as vanilla that adds skeleton lords and others to vanilla spawn lists, I have no idea. I've played full BG1 runs on TuTu with Lure, Mini Quests, and UB, and never found Skelly Lords out of place, iirc. I think I only found them in the Thieves Maze and the Undercity.

 

I edited the post while you answered, it seems.

[Lightbringer]

Excellent points. It is a bit more murky than it once was, isn't it?

 

My assumption is that a player will attempt to solve quests within the chapter they can first receive them, or maybe one further chapter. EET takes the non-linearity of Baldur's gate up to 11, to be sure. However, I think it is not unreasonable to assume a basic path through the game.

 

Candlekeep, FAI, Beregost, Nashkell, Mines, all wilderness areas pre-cloakwood plus Firewine and Ulcaster, Bandit Camp, Cloakwood, Baldur's Gate City, Candlekeep Redux, Sarevok. Insert Ulgoth's, Werewolves, and Durlag somewhere Between Baldur's Gate City and Sarevok. I know you don't have to do anything remotely resembling that order, but I would think one can assume that as an expected order.

 

In other words, yes, Liches and Pit Fiends guarding the Gnoll Fortress is not unbalanced for a ToB party. However, I think it is not untoward to assume a party of level 4-6 is appropriate for that area, and not a lvl 25-30 party. Therefore, awarding +3 swords can clearly be said to be power balanced, and not vanilla balanced, even if your party could technically be a ToB party, if you take a very strange route through the game.

 

Ehh I don't know, maybe I just need to wait until more of EET is available and ready, as you've said before. Perhaps mods like Dark Horizons are just sticking out all by their lonesome right now with their piles of +3 weapons and +4 armors on the straight path from Beregost to the Nashkell Mines.

[Roxanne]

Excellent points. It is a bit more murky than it once was, isn't it?

 

My assumption is that a player will attempt to solve quests within the chapter they can first receive them, or maybe one further chapter. EET takes the non-linearity of Baldur's gate up to 11, to be sure. However, I think it is not unreasonable to assume a basic path through the game.

 

Candlekeep, FAI, Beregost, Nashkell, Mines, all wilderness areas pre-cloakwood plus Firewine and Ulcaster, Bandit Camp, Cloakwood, Baldur's Gate City, Candlekeep Redux, Sarevok. Insert Ulgoth's, Werewolves, and Durlag somewhere Between Baldur's Gate City and Sarevok. I know you don't have to do anything remotely resembling that order, but I would think one can assume that as an expected order.

 

In other words, yes, Liches and Pit Fiends guarding the Gnoll Fortress is not unbalanced for a ToB party. However, I think it is not untoward to assume a party of level 4-6 is appropriate for that area, and not a lvl 25-30 party. Therefore, awarding +3 swords can clearly be said to be power balanced, and not vanilla balanced, even if your party could technically be a ToB party, if you take a very strange route through the game.

 

Ehh I don't know, maybe I just need to wait until more of EET is available and ready, as you've said before. Perhaps mods like Dark Horizons are just sticking out all by their lonesome right now with their piles of +3 weapons and +4 armors on the straight path from Beregost to the Nashkell Mines.

I completely follow your reasoning and assumptions.

 

It is not so completely different from what we always had in BGT if you installed a multi-mega-mod game, only that EET adds SoD to the game as well.

There is a point where you decide if that different balancing is an issue for you or just a different way of enjoying the game. You open up for surprises or you want it strict to the rules (whichever ones you think are the right-and-only ones). Probably nothing to be ever resolved for everybody, i.e. everybody makes their own choices of what they install or not - as long as we accept that this freedom of choice is there for any player and there is no *one size fits all*, the game is able to be fun for all types of players.

 

Where it starts to get *murky* (as you phrase it) is when you fall into the trap of (older BWP and BWS) in trying to fit each and every mod into one bigger-than-big installation. It is rather to find the right mix for yourself than *all(or...more) you can eat*.

[Lightbringer]

From what I've read so far, I think I can move:

 

To Power:

DSotSC

NTotSC

 

To Vanilla:

Fishing for Trouble

Reunion

Dungeon Crawl

Eilistraee's Song

Stone of Askavar

Colours of Infinity

 

Also, it looks like many of these issues were hashed out earlier this year in 2016 on another thread in another forum. Sorry for being late to the party

[Roxanne]

many of these issues were hashed out in 2016 on another thread in another forum.

Yes and no.

 

This was before EET came into existence.

 

Also note that a number of conversions of mods for EET have included changes/options for the EET versions e.g DSotSC, NTotSC, or TDDz (making items, spells, tweak rules etc optional or remove them).

[Lightbringer]

 

Excellent points. It is a bit more murky than it once was, isn't it?

 

My assumption is that a player will attempt to solve quests within the chapter they can first receive them, or maybe one further chapter. EET takes the non-linearity of Baldur's gate up to 11, to be sure. However, I think it is not unreasonable to assume a basic path through the game.

 

Candlekeep, FAI, Beregost, Nashkell, Mines, all wilderness areas pre-cloakwood plus Firewine and Ulcaster, Bandit Camp, Cloakwood, Baldur's Gate City, Candlekeep Redux, Sarevok. Insert Ulgoth's, Werewolves, and Durlag somewhere Between Baldur's Gate City and Sarevok. I know you don't have to do anything remotely resembling that order, but I would think one can assume that as an expected order.

 

In other words, yes, Liches and Pit Fiends guarding the Gnoll Fortress is not unbalanced for a ToB party. However, I think it is not untoward to assume a party of level 4-6 is appropriate for that area, and not a lvl 25-30 party. Therefore, awarding +3 swords can clearly be said to be power balanced, and not vanilla balanced, even if your party could technically be a ToB party, if you take a very strange route through the game.

 

Ehh I don't know, maybe I just need to wait until more of EET is available and ready, as you've said before. Perhaps mods like Dark Horizons are just sticking out all by their lonesome right now with their piles of +3 weapons and +4 armors on the straight path from Beregost to the Nashkell Mines.

I completely follow your reasoning and assumptions.

 

It is not so completely different from what we always had in BGT if you installed a multi-mega-mod game, only that EET adds SoD to the game as well.

There is a point where you decide if that different balancing is an issue for you or just a different way of enjoying the game. You open up for surprises or you want it strict to the rules (whichever ones you think are the right-and-only ones). Probably nothing to be ever resolved for everybody, i.e. everybody makes their own choices of what they install or not - as long as we accept that this freedom of choice is there for any player and there is no *one size fits all*, the game is able to be fun for all types of players.

 

Where it starts to get *murky* (as you phrase it) is when you fall into the trap of (older BWP and BWS) in trying to fit each and every mod into one bigger-than-big installation. It is rather to find the right mix for yourself than *all(or...more) you can eat*.

 

 

Quite so. Just wish there was a way to get some warning as to which mods were what kind. I suppose I just made one

 

I tend to value expected balance levels myself. However, I am also intrigued by the possiblities of the crazy town power mods. I do have a p0wr-gamr streak -- it's one of the things I enjoy about ToB.

 

Sounds like I'll just use my list now to run through my boring ol' vanilla playthrough where I wait 'till Watcher's Keep to find my first (of many) +12 Hackmasters (polished with the chest-hair of Thor himself, Subtledoctor!).

 

Once the rest of the mega and content mods get EET ready (plus IWD-in-EET), I'll do a big full Sandrah playthrough and see what kinds of trouble I can get into

[Lightbringer]

I suppose I would have more perspective on all of this if I had been a part of the BGT/BWP community and could see all the changes over the years. I discovered TuTu many years back and that, a couple of BG1 NPCs, Unfinished Business, and BG2Tweaks were most of the extant of my modding. I think my one quest mod was Lure of the Sirine's Call. That was about it, until a year ago when I stumbled into "this EET thing" while looking for good material for a multiplayer BG game I was going to drag some friends through.

 

So, moving from the wild and crazy hedonism of being able to play a Monk straight from Candlekeep and with arrow/gem/potion stacking, right into multiple mega mods ....

Well, it went about as well as it could have, I suppose

 

Next time I'll try introducing the transplant gradually, so the host's immune system will have a chance to adapt xD

 

Time for sleeping. I'm feeling the urge to mix metaphors irresponsibly and it can only end poorly for bystanders.

[GrimLefourbe]

I very much like the idea. I don't like the Power Mods (though I might try them all together at some point idk) and it's always been very disappointing when I randomly face battles that stand out completely.

 

I believe Assassinations is close to Vanilla.

[Roxanne]

randomly face battles that stand out completely.

 

Would it not depend on the circumstances?

 

There was one mod that put an army of high level bandits in front of Beregost Feldepost Inn in chapter 1. No chance to fight them or visit that inn. Probably a very bad idea...

Another mod puts equivalent enemies to the second level under Ulcaster ruins. You can try your luck if you want to or you can skip them or you can come back any time you feel like it. Why not have some really dangerous spots on the Sword Coast if they do not keep you from following your overall trail through the game?

[Jarno Mikkola]

There was one mod that put an army of high level bandits in front of Beregost Feldepost Inn in chapter 1.

Which mod was that ? Cause the Gray Clan Episode 1 is actually after entering the BG city in chapter 5 or so.

Yes, the SCS can make the mage(Tarnesh) fight quite much harder in chapter 1 if you choose the most difficult options for mage fights. And yeah, the random encounters can also be harder if you want to F your game up with every Tactical mod out there... but that's your OWN FAULT. The BWS doesn't say the Tactical mods are fair.

But, there's no Army of hard enemies... unless the EET's chapter conversion is off by a mile.

[GrimLefourbe]

Well, sure it wouldn't be that bad if they indeed had that function (sort of like the battle horrors in front of durlag's) but for example, Dark Horizons pops 2 bandits on the way to nashkel. One of them has a paralyzing sword + 2 I believe and the other has a boomerang dagger + 2 with an extra attack per round.

That fight was extremely tedious and the loot made the rest of the game ridiculously easy. (I actually separated my items into 2 bags, one for normal items and one for Dark Horizons items and I would only equip the Dark Horizons stuff when doing Dark Horizons)

 

It's not the only such example either.

I think I tried the mod you're talking about with the second level under Ulcaster ruins but I was also disappointed by this one, it wasn't original or interesting, the added maps were basically copies of Candlekeep's catacombs(the loot didn't even change from Candlekeep IIRC) instead of something more interesting(idk, related to Ulcaster's demise ?).

 

There's also an issue of keeping the game believable. While I agree that high level zones in the middle of a lower level story can be interesting, it's very hard to get right imo and that's where most "high level" mods failed to me. Sure, an inn could be home to high level bandits but you'd better add some good context as to why they are here, have people talking about it. It needs to be mentioned as it stands out to be believable.

Having more stuff like Durlag's tower would actually be very interesting, stuff that makes you go "holy shit i'm gone" which you can come back to later. I think EET is especially a good place for this since you could actually decide to come back during BG2.

 

@Jarno Mikkola, Roxxane said Feldepost not Friendly Arm though... Isn't the Gray Clan Episode 1 stuff at the FAI?

[Roxanne]

Feldepost not Friendly Arm though... Isn't the Gray Clan Episode 1 stuff at the FAI

Grey Clan is at FAI - and it is after you entered Baldur's Gate and it is optional even then (you need to accept several tasks first) and it is not unbalanced for that part of the game (there is a second option at Feldepost Inn that is harder but approxinatly on the level of Durlag Tower finale,)

The mod I was referring to was some Korean/Eastern kind of mod (the name I forgot) that put those bandits into Beregost right away before you could even turn down the quest.

 

PS - this whole discussion was not around tactical - see the clear description in the headline.

It is about added content and its balancing. And in EET we have some examples - and whether you like them or not maybe defines how you would judge the stuff added by the mods listed above: Bean dogs added *very balanced* new mini-quests for their new NPCs in BG1, wirh new areas and all. Either you think they did the very right thing, staying true to vanilla level or you are highly disappointed and ask yourself why they took all the pain for new areas and plots just to let you fight a few more goblins...