List of quest and content mods by balance type

[Jarno Mikkola]

@Jarno Mikkola, Roxxane said Feldepost not Friendly Arm though... Isn't the Gray Clan Episode 1 stuff at the FAI?

Aah, yeah, that's the area where there's nothing to do in the whole game, yes... it has a hard encounter that kills the characters that go there on a random offshoot not noticing what's what. Just like the taverns customers(Den of Seven Vales) in BG2 that if angered will likely kill you on sight, if you are low enough level.

[Lightbringer]

I second Grim. Dark Horizons is what broke my enjoyment of the game. It's a damn shame. I like the concept of additional, challenging, bounty hunters. This is completely different though. Those two bounty hunters in the middle of the direct road to Nashkell had a +3 sword that held on hit and a +1 returning throwing knife. Make the sword +1 and make the stun a %chance and I'm on board. Oh, I forgot the most important point. Both weapons increased your attacks per round by TWO. Those weapons are awesome! For Watcher's Keep!

 

I had a 2nd level character with 3 attacks that could stun on hit up to THREE TIMES a round -- without doing anything unusual to achieve it. There is just no excuse for that. At level 20, sure. But level 2? No way! It seems pretty unambiguous to me.

 

Now, put that weapon in an optional cave guarded by a lich or two, sure. I love that concept. I would very much look forward to going back and earning that weapon much later.

 

I like the idea of making the sword coast more dangerous. Adding ogre warbands to the main road south to Nashkell sounds like fun. Giving them all (each member of each of the warbands) Flails of Ages is absolutely uncalled for. No mod has done that so far (that I'm aware of), but it seems par for the course from what I've seen of some.

 

A great example of good power content that is still balanced is a cave that (I think) Dark Side (or Northern Tales?) of the Sword Coast adds to the Temple of Lathander map. There's no reason to go in there unless you want to (a guy does run up and give you a plot hook). It's filled with Sword Spiders vampiric wolves and souped up zombies. Plus some DoomBear that I think is supposed to be like the Doomsayer (very hard for a low level party). Your reward is a quest and some pretty decent loot. Seemed like high end BG1 level stuff. You could go get your butt handed to you at low level, or wait till after the Cloakwood and go clean house. That is good stuff.

 

Dark Horizons added another bandit group in the middle of the Nashkell mines that cannot be avoided -- had a warrior with a +3 battle axe (grants +1 str and does extra damage too) and +4 plate mail (+30 fire resist). One of the clerics had a +3 morningstar that gave +1 con and did extra damage. Whole fight had 1 warrior, 2 clerics, and 2 rogues. I hear it's a brutal fight, but I cleaned it up without contest thanks to Web, a Necklace of Missiles, and ranged weapons. All combatants were loaded up with +2 or better gear.

 

Outside, the mines (tombs exit) the nearby Iron Throne assassins were majorly souped up with gear with several +3 items and a suit of +4 studded leather.

 

At that point, I looked at my main 3 warriors and realized I wouldn't be upgrading much of their big gear until late BG2, at earliest. I actually had a "spare" +3 axe in my pack that slays ghouls on hit. I just didn't need it.

 

The base assumption for the game is that you'll be about level 3, maybe as high as 4-5 at this point in the game.

 

That is what I'm talking about when it comes to broken power unbalance.

 

If you want to hand me +12 hackmasters straight out of Candlekeep, because I'll need them to defeat the Demilich clusters you have mucking about in the Nashkell Mines, great.

But warn me first that that is what your mod is all about. So I can make an informed decision about whether or not to include it in my game.

Please

[Lightbringer]

 

randomly face battles that stand out completely.

 

Would it not depend on the circumstances?

 

There was one mod that put an army of high level bandits in front of Beregost Feldepost Inn in chapter 1. No chance to fight them or visit that inn. Probably a very bad idea...

Another mod puts equivalent enemies to the second level under Ulcaster ruins. You can try your luck if you want to or you can skip them or you can come back any time you feel like it. Why not have some really dangerous spots on the Sword Coast if they do not keep you from following your overall trail through the game?

 

 

The first example sounds like horrible design (without some extraordinary circumstances to compensate), the second example sounds like great design. Make the super powered stuff optional, that the player has to search out intentionally -- and gate it behind equivalent risks. Now, it does sound like it's an optional fight that can take place after Chapter 5. That's a little better. Beregost is kind of optional by that point. Just not at first arrival in Chapter 1.

 

The one exception I can think of is if a mod is designed to completely change the balance of the game. As I said before, Holy Avengers by the truckload, but also Demiliches by the train-load. From what I understand, Sandrah Saga is closer to that style (maybe not Demiliches -- exaggeration for illustration and all that), and sticks out a little because all of its supporting content mods aren't ready yet.

 

I do look forward to trying out all of the power mods in the future, with Sandrah Saga as the pretty bow that ties them all together. For now, though, I'm just looking to get through a "normal" game. Hence the topic and list

[Lightbringer]

It's not the only such example either.

I think I tried the mod you're talking about with the second level under Ulcaster ruins but I was also disappointed by this one, it wasn't original or interesting, the added maps were basically copies of Candlekeep's catacombs(the loot didn't even change from Candlekeep IIRC) instead of something more interesting(idk, related to Ulcaster's demise ?).

 

I think the mod that adds a basement to Ulcaster is also Dark Horizons. Too bad it wasn't better. I was looking forward to checking it out.

 

Don't get me wrong, DH isn't all bad. I love the additions it made to the Gnoll Fortress. More gnolls? Packs of much tougher gnolls (think ogre berzerker level)? Two clan leaders with magical halberds who almost took down Minsc the Gnoll Slayer, even while he was raging? A bonus pack of kobolds with commandos and witch doctors? Yes, Yes. Yes, and Yes! Made it all much more epic!

But still within the (high) bounds of expected BG1 difficulty. The magic halberds were +2, sure, but at least they weren't +3, strength increasing, poison-on-hit monstrosities xD

 

I'll be sad to see that part of my game go. It was very well done

[Roxanne]

But warn me first that that is what your mod is all about. So I can make an informed decision about whether or not to include it in my game.

 

 

Thank you for the hint - I just discovered that my warning for the Sandrah mod somehow got lost when I rewrote the mod description and readme for EET. In the BGT version I was saying that the mod was for

*seasoned players who want to experience the game a bit different this time, not recommended if you play BGT for the first time.*

I will put this back in again as *general mega mod warning* may not be enough..

 

Also refer to my signiture on every post, is that not clear?::

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

[GrimLefourbe]

I don't think you need to feel targeted by this Roxanne, the first post clearly mentions this isn't related to quality of mods only to "type" of content.

[Lightbringer]

 

But warn me first that that is what your mod is all about. So I can make an informed decision about whether or not to include it in my game.

 

 

Thank you for the hint - I just discovered that my warning for the Sandrah mod somehow got lost when I rewrote the mod description and readme for EET. In the BGT version I was saying that the mod was for

*seasoned players who want to experience the game a bit different this time, not recommended if you play BGT for the first time.*

I will put this back in again as *general mega mod warning* may not be enough..

 

Also refer to my signiture on every post, is that not clear?::

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 

 

Ok I should apologize. I actually wasn't intending to single you or Sandrah Saga out specifically. You've been very open as to what your mod is all about, and very communicative with your players on your site at SHS (including me ) I was more generally frustrated at other mods I suppose, and frustrated by being surprised partway through a playthrough, especially on a platform where piecemeal installs/uninstalls are not possible.

 

As for the "general mega-mod warning" I thought that meant it was complex with many moving pieces, and therefore subject to complexities in install and operation. As for your sig, I thought you were being sarcastic, given the quotes.

 

I'm going to be quiet and put this rant to bed for good, so I don't cause any (more?) hard feelings for anyone. My thanks and gratitude to all mod makers and the content they put so much blood sweat and tears into.

[AWizardDidIt]

This is a wonderful idea. I would love to see a list of "balanced" mods for my own eventual playthrough with EET.

[K4thos]

I second Grim. Dark Horizons is what broke my enjoyment of the game. It's a damn shame.

 

If I remember correctly Dark Horizons is an encounters + items mod without real plot (although not sure, since I played it with many other mods and wasn't sure which content came from which one). Can't say I liked it. Getting the best weapon in game (including ToB) right after killing Tristan and Isolde on the third area of BG1 always seemed off to me. And there is probably no chance for rebalanced version because author seems to be perfectly fine with it the way it is and actually was against any external changes if I remember correctly (topic on SHS made by guy who rebalanced DSotSC and NTotSC items). Just an opinion in case you're looking for more feedback, Roxanne considering this mod seems to be required by Sandrah.

[Roxanne]

 

I second Grim. Dark Horizons is what broke my enjoyment of the game. It's a damn shame.

 

If I remember correctly Dark Horizons is an encounters + items mod without real plot (although not sure, since I played it with many other mods and wasn't sure which content came from which one). Can't say I liked it. Getting the best weapon in game (including ToB) right after killing Tristan and Isolde on the third area of BG1 always seemed off to me. And there is probably no chance for rebalanced version because author seems to be perfectly fine with it the way it is and actually was against any external changes if I remember correctly (topic on SHS made by guy who rebalanced DSotSC and NTotSC items). Just an opinion in case you're looking for more feedback, Roxanne considering this mod seems to be required by Sandrah.

 

seems to be required by Sandrah.

It is not required, it is recommended, as it is one of those loose mods that are tied a bit further into the main PC story by my mod.

 

I have always considered the (best? well, not really) early weapons you may get for some of the weaker NPCs in BG1, the ones you would otherwise not take into your party. Equipping them does not overpower them but give you a chance to get some new experience with a group member you otherwise easily cast aside, I rarely load my party with the excessive items the DH foes drop, but I agree that it all depends on the way you handle such stuff.

(Something similar may happen when we get IWD-in-EET sometimes, you cannot tweak the extra items out without disappointing half the players and you should leave it to anyone's choice of how they handle the imbalance.)

[Lightbringer]

 

I second Grim. Dark Horizons is what broke my enjoyment of the game. It's a damn shame.

 

If I remember correctly Dark Horizons is an encounters + items mod without real plot (although not sure, since I played it with many other mods and wasn't sure which content came from which one). Can't say I liked it. Getting the best weapon in game (including ToB) right after killing Tristan and Isolde on the third area of BG1 always seemed off to me. And there is probably no chance for rebalanced version because author seems to be perfectly fine with it the way it is and actually was against any external changes if I remember correctly (topic on SHS made by guy who rebalanced DSotSC and NTotSC items). Just an opinion in case you're looking for more feedback, Roxanne considering this mod seems to be required by Sandrah.

 

 

Does the EET compatible version of Dark Side and Northern Tales include that rebalancing of those mods?

[K4thos]

It is not required, it is recommended,

my bad, sorry.

 

(Something similar may happen when we get IWD-in-EET sometimes, you cannot tweak the extra items out without disappointing half the players and you should leave it to anyone's choice of how they handle the imbalance.)

indeed.

 

Does the EET compatible version of Dark Side and Northern Tales include that rebalancing of those mods?

 

DSotSC - yes

NTotSC with those rebalance XP gains and items hasn't been released yet (Roxanne released direct port of BGT version, different version will be released in future)

[Lightbringer]

This is a wonderful idea. I would love to see a list of "balanced" mods for my own eventual playthrough with EET.

 

Perhaps adding more detail as to what kind of balance, too. Personally, I don't get my feathers ruffled by optional difficulty, but I do for majorly over-powered items.

 

For example, Twas a Slow Boat from Kara-Tur had an exceptionally challenging final battle, but the items available in the shop were only slightly more powerful than vanilla. Encounter-wise, it's Power, but item-wise, it's nearly vanilla. Roxanne's recommendations for Tower of Deception and Grey Clan seem to also indicate a possible further level of granularity.

 

I also recognize that exactly what is "balanced" is extremely subjective. For some, "unbalanced" is rigidly defined as anything that is a single point better than vanilla. For others, it is an arbitrary threshold of some sort, floating out there undefined "but they know it when they see it". Then there are those that may think "balance" is a crutch for the weak Honeslty, I'm probably more of the "arbitrary threshold" guy -- which is quite unfair to anyone else, of course.

 

Ah well, it seems that the community will be wrestling with this for some time yet, especially when IWD-in-EET breaks into the scene.

[Lightbringer]

 

It is not required, it is recommended,

my bad, sorry.

 

(Something similar may happen when we get IWD-in-EET sometimes, you cannot tweak the extra items out without disappointing half the players and you should leave it to anyone's choice of how they handle the imbalance.)

indeed.

 

Does the EET compatible version of Dark Side and Northern Tales include that rebalancing of those mods?

 

DSotSC - yes

NTotSC with those rebalance XP gains and items hasn't been released yet (Roxanne released direct port of BGT version, different version will be released in future)

 

Thanks K4thos.

Was there a similar rebalancing of TDD(z)?

[Roxanne]

Was there a similar rebalancing of TDD(z)?

TDDz offers you a choice for customisation (it is a tp2 improvement that lets you select from the original material, so to say) Here is an extract from the author's description:

Indeed, I make TTDz as customizable as possible: make items undroppable, replace them, change creatures xp, replace creatures, replace by better scripts at player heart contents!

Also note that it is played in SoA where you also fight e.g. Firkraag - and the final high level episode (now made optional) is not available until the time you are ready to face Irenicus in Hell.