Unearthed Arcana presents Faiths & Powers: Gods of the Realms

[subtledoctor]

Doable... could make a custom proficiency ability that lets them go one star beyond the normal druid/thief limits, and give it... once every 5 levels or so. Give it MnG bard songs and bard-specific spells (a druid/thief casting Sound Burst and Secret Word and Shout? Hell yeah...). Just a question of whether I can find the time and energy to do it. Especially since "make a custom proficiency ability" requires fixing the existing proficiency abilities/dialogues in SoB and MnG and NPC_EE, which are in dire need of an update...

Edited October 21, 2021 by subtledoctor

[Thacobell]

I know you don't mod much anymore (you're a super updater though), so this isn't an expectation or anything. I had to put my thoughts down to get them out of my head. The joys of hyper focusing. If you do find the time/energy/motivation, I can shoot weapon, armor, and/or stat requirements, etc. if you want. I have a pdf of the original class.

[Guest Morgoth]

The readme of this mod is really huge and I noticed there is a lot of creativity poured into Faith and powers. Nice.

Two questions:

1) I've checked the ranger class and it doesn't seem like there is an evil option available. Am I wrong? 

2) Any particular evil-restricted class you find funny to play that I should try? Please pick two, one RP focused, one PP focused.

3) Am I wrong remembering that dual classing into sorcerer is now possible with one of your mods? I tried to Tome and Blood, installed multiclass sorcerers, but the dual class option was not there.

 

[subtledoctor]

43 minutes ago, Guest Morgoth said:

I've checked the ranger class and it doesn't seem like there is an evil option available. Am I wrong?

I'm pretty sure you can be an evil ranger within FnP. Some particular kits might be alignment-restricted... eh, maybe the trueclass ranger is. But I believe you can at least be an evil archer, stalker, mage hunter, etc.

44 minutes ago, Guest Morgoth said:

Am I wrong remembering that dual classing into sorcerer is now possible with one of your mods? I tried to Tome and Blood, installed multiclass sorcerers, but the dual class option was not there.

It's a multiclass kit, not a single-class kit you can dual into. That would be a whole different ball of yarn. Doable, to be sure... but not done and not planned to be done.

[Guest Morgoth]

Okay.

Given that I saw a lot of kits, I would like to ask if you could consider the following ideas:

1) Death master. See here: https://dndtools.net/classes/death-master/.

2) Also any chance of more "vile darkness" classes? 

3) Any chance of corruption based classes? Like the tainted scholar (http://dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/rulebook/heroes-of-horror--70/index.html)

Cheers

[Guest Morgoth]

I've only one thing to report: I think the classes inside this are good, but they are not amazing, because it seems like they lack that push to make them awesome and to actually revolutionize in some way the way the player plays (such as Psion, mana sorcerer, etc)
 

[subtledoctor]

Well, they are all clerics. The point of the mod is not to create a new class like a psion or warlock (although a few like the Elementalist and multiclass druids tiptoe toward that). There are already several cleric kits in the game, the point of adding more kits is to allow the player to be that same class without being limited to the very few and limited options of Lathander/Helm/Talos. 

The bigger goal for how the mod changes gameplay is (IMHO) in the sphere system. Whereas in the normal game “cleric gonna cleric” with Bless/DUHM/Summon Skeleton/etc. no matter which kit they have, with this system you can have six different clerics in your party and each one will have different approaches to solving problems and encounters. (I’ve actually done that in IWDEE.)

[Guest Morgoth]

Understood. I guess that I didn't focus enough while reading the readme to the fact that you are focusing on divine classes. 

I will just say that I find the Ur priest special skills a bit "disappointing". I mean, you talk about sapping life from humans and divinity, something amazing should be added if you use it on Bhaalspawns, especially the stronger one. 

I take back my requests above then, because they are not suited for this mod. But please, If you are planning on making something revolutionizing, please consider the three kits above I asked.

[subtledoctor]

I haven't been happy with the sphere of Creation... with the new golem-summoning spells, that's basically all it's good for.  So what to do? Return it to a sphere of "Benediction" with Bless/Chant/Prayer/etc., thus separating those spells from the All sphere?  Or maybe, maybe, make a sphere for insect/spider-based spells. We already have enough to fill it out:

• Beetle Swarm (summons 4-6 little beetles)
• Spider Swarm (summons 4-6 little spiders)
• Web
• Summon Insects
• Giant Insect (boring/bombardier beetles from IWD)
• Spider Spawn (the wizard spell)
• Insect Plague
• Carrion Summons (the wizard spell)
• Creeping Doom
• Summon Rhino Beetle (summons a... you get it)

That is a solid sphere, actually outclassing the mammal-focused Animal sphere. But, but but but...

1) What to call it?  I can't think of a good name. I see that Deities of Faerun calls it the sphere of "Vermin," but I don't love that. "Insects," "Arachnids," "Arthropods" alll seem too technical or scientific. Spell spheres are supposed to be about a theme... in that regard "Vermin" is actually good, it's only that when you say "vermin" the first thing I think of is rats, not wasps or giant spiders.

2) The problem with making new spheres is that every time we add a new one, some priests suddenly lose access to those spells, if they don't get access to that sphere. Adding this sphere means a whole host of druids will lose access to Insect Plague and Creeping Doom, which are traditionally important spells for druids.

Right now we have a lot of spheres (25 I think), and most kits get access to a lot of them in order to have a broad range of spells. But lately I'm thinking that it might be better to have fewer, bigger spheres so that kits can have a well-rounded spell list with a more limited list of sphere access. Hmmm... Maybe I'll make up a new variant sphere system to try that out.

Anyway, for now, I can press a button and make that insect-focused sphere, it's all ready to go. If anyone has an idea for what to name it, let me know...

[subtledoctor]

Oh well, I've gone ahead and created the new sphere and called it "Vermin" for now... that's subject to change, though, if I come up with a better idea. Some of the spells there used to be reserved for the Hivekeeper druid, now they are available to anyone with access to the sphere... which is mostly just the Hivekeeper druid   Maybe a couple others.

I also updated the sequencer_menu version to fix a possible buggy interaction with other mods that use the same system. And now the 'universal' spells in the sphere of All should be properly granted when using the 5E spellcasting conversion mod.

All this in version 0.79.31.

[Thacobell]

I'd toss in a vote for bigger, more rounded spheres. Also, this doesn't mean that non-hivekeeper druids miss out on the insect swarm/plague/creeping doom spells, does it?

[subtledoctor]

4 hours ago, Thacobell said:

Also, this doesn't mean that non-hivekeeper druids miss out on the insect swarm/plague/creeping doom spells, does it?

That's exactly what it means. Jaheira will get Summon Insects but not Insect Plague or Creeping Doom.

I mean, I suppose I could put those in the sphere of Animal also*... but doesn't that sort of defeat the point of making different spheres?

Contrarily, making bigger spheres, like putting all insect and mammal spells into a single sphere, would mean every druid could cast the best insect spells, so what makes the Hivekeeper special in that case?

This stuff is hard to balance just right.

* (And of course, the sphere system is totally user-configurable, so you can easily add those spells back to the animal sphere yourself if you want. Just edit faiths_and_powers/lib/sphere_list_fnp.tpa before installing. Copy lines 104 and 106 and paste them above line 260, and mark the new lines as "Animal" instead of Vermin.")

[Thacobell]

Insect Plague is such a staple druid spell, it's really weird to take it away nearly every druid. I could see a case for Creeping Doom, being the highest level/power insect spell. 

[subtledoctor]

I hear that, which is why I'm fretting about this. (OTOH, with this mod, druids have about 2.5x the normal number of spells they get in the unmodded game, so you still have way more tools to work with... they are just not the same tools.)

It's a conundrum. The vanilla game essentially gives you a small selection of 2E spells, but which is curated to cover lots of bases and be useful in various ways within the context of the game. The overall divine spell list with FnP is easily twice as large as that of the vanilla game... but the only way to do that without massive, massive spellbook bloat is to take some spells away from this or that kit. It's unavoidable in a project like this. Make a sphere of Knowledge/Divination and you are taking True Sight away from some people; they have to make do with Invisibility Purge. Make a sphere of Thought or Chaos and you are taking Chaotic Commands away from some people; they have to make do with Exaltation or Spiritual Clarity. Make a sphere of Vermin/Insects and you are taking Insect Plague away from some people; they have to make do with Summon Insects (which, honestly, I've found to be good enough).

There are different ideas for addressing this:

• Add a 3rd tier of sphere access? Minor access up to 3rd-level spells, medium access for 5th-level spells, and major access for 7th-level spells
• Just wildly bloat every kit's spellbook, and let players decide which ones to memorize and thus what their toolset will look like
• Allow moderate spellbook bloat, give special high-level spells to more kits, and lean harder on the "focus access" mechanic to make kits like the Hivekeeper more special (imagine casting Insect Plague at 7th level! )

It's definitely worth discussing this - I'd like to dial it in for a fun experience, or provide several options that different people prefer.

Edited November 2, 2021 by subtledoctor

[Thacobell]

"Allow moderate spellbook bloat, give special high-level spells to more kits, and lean harder on the "focus access" mechanic to make kits like the Hivekeeper more special (imagine casting Insect Plague at 7th level!  )"

I personally really like this option. Combine this with keeping the highest level versions of spells kit specific (like creeping doom for hivemaster), and the usual kit special abilities/equipment quirks, and kits should remain unique.